Jungle Fever: The Relationship Between African Men and White Women
January 17th, 2008
Part seven of the 10 things I wish I knew before leaving Africa
From Wikipedia encyclopedia: Jungle fever- a slang term for interracial relations
It was my last week in Kenya and I was just about to be shipped off to Australia. There I was, casually sauntering through Carnivore trying to convince older women that I still wasn’t being breast fed. Out of the corner of my eye I saw a friend of mine, drunker than a depressed brewery worker, come staggering down. He staggered directly to me, plopped his hand on my shoulder and delivered a monologue that I will probably never forger until the day I die. I paraphrase:
“You guy as you ship over, remember something….(dramatic pause) Those Western women love black d***. These chicks wait at the airport with signs just chilling for the next black dude to step off the plane..(At this point, I drifted off into fantasy land imagining the possibilities of what he had just told me)”
You can’t even imagine what that did to me. As I stepped on that Kenya Airways plane, I had a pep in my step and I wasn’t looking back. And then I arrived!!!
So What Do I Know Five Years Later?
I am glad you asked. I have been in boarding school in the country, Christian schools, public schools, different cities, different states and different Universities. I have hung out with Kenyans, Zims, Tswanas, Ugandans, Asians, Indians, Caucasians the whole shebang (btw what type of word is shebang? who came up with a word like shebang?). My observation is pretty simple. African men being mighty conquerors who head on over to Western countries and can seduce any Western woman they want because they all swoon over him: by and large that’s a myth!
There are in general five types of Western women who get jungle fever for African men:
1) Girls with low self esteem
2) Girls who are ‘kilogramically challenged’ aka a tad bit overweight
3) Girls with drug problems
4) Girls who wanna ‘be down’ (think double-entendres here)
5) Girls who watch too much interracial porn or spend way too much time in fantasy land
Low Self Esteem and Overweight
I have put these two together for one reason. Now ladies, please, correct me if I am wrong: I have noticed that as far as woman are concerned, even in this post-feminist age, majority of women still pretty much value themselves on the basis of their beauty and/or their desirability to potential suitors.
If you don’t believe me, Google ‘Weight loss’ and see how many results come up. Go to the supermarket and check how many of those magazines talk about fabulous dresses and ways to please your man. Finally, tell a girl she is stupid and unemployable and watch her reaction. Finally tell her she is ugly and no one will ever find her attractive.See which of the two derives a stronger reaction (btw please don’t actually do this experiment to see how hurt someone gets, I can tell you right now in my experience it’s the ugly comment that hurts the most)
So let’s assume you now agree with me. Now out here in the West, fat women aren’t generally considered beautiful. Therefore if women feel they are not beautiful and desirable they tend to feel pretty worthless and have self-esteem and self-confidence issues.
Cue the African Man
I won’t even bother explaining and philosophizing on it……I’ve got two stories for you:
The Story of the Fully Stocked Fridge (An African Man’s Take on Why We Sleep with Fat Western Women, again I paraphrase. Actually anytime I quote someone, assume I am paraphrasing and not giving you a verbatim quote unless I state otherwise): So you’re in the club and you know, you are not there to preach. You have three missions, chill with your boys, grab a cold one and finally maybe leave with a little something something…..
So you check in the club it’s maybe 9:30pm, sit down and start vibing with your boys. The pints start coming and a good time is being had by all. Then around midnight,you start to feel your soldier down south telling you it’s time to go hunting.
So you know, there are a few mirooz(Africans for the uninitiated) around, so you begin campaigning. You ask to the left, is nothing. You ask to the right, nyimwad (denied).
Then you notice something out of the corner of your eye but you push it aside. Around 2:30 a.m. that thing that was taking up just a corner is now taking up the ENTIRE space of both your eyes. She’s a big woman and you’re like, “There’s no way…there’s just no way.”
At 3 a.m., you rewrite your rules and draft a new constitution. And so you look around and say to yourself, “Enyewe njaa ni mbaya (the hunger is bad).”
3:15a.m., you are there with your hand outstretched, asking her if you can connect the dots. Talking is just a formality and after a quick convo, you leave together.
Now the great thing about sleeping with a big woman is come the next morning. You have finished your work. Now she’s a big woman so you’ve just put in overtime on that shift. But when you go to the fridge…..”
“….Fully loaded! If you’re a broke or a student, it’s like going to heaven. By sleeping with big mamas you save $50 in shopping every week.”
So What’s the Game Plan?
The Book Review (This is another friend of mine telling me about a book he had just recently read):
“The guy who wrote the book is a bright guy. Now anytime you look at a group of chicks, there is always either an ugly one or a fat one, sometimes they are the same person. Now other guys will be campaigning for the other chicks, but you, you’re a time saver. You compromise on quality for the evening and you slide on in to the unattractive often neglected friend. A bit of flattery, make her feel beautiful and boom, you’re in.”
Btw both stories are true, a bit exaggerated but very very true.
Has a Drug Problem and Wants to Be Down
Again these two are very much related. These women tend to be the women who are knee deep into the hip hop culture and think that African is one big country where we ALL listen to hip hop and act like 50 cent-Ask someone who’s been in the West a while and you learn this stereotype is surprisingly common.
So after listening to enough Bone Thugs n Harmony, they begin to sample marijuana, or a bit of cocaine or speed or whatever. And soon enough they become addicted. What do they do?
1) First they seek people to smoke with. (btw I kid you not, for those of you who haven’t found enough odd things on the Internet, there is actually a dating site for marijuana smokers. I guess we all need love…..)
2) And then they seek someone to sell them the drugs on a regular basis
Cue the Black Man
This spot is reserved for the African brothers who are also knee deep into hip hop. In my first couple of years here, it was quite common for people to stop me and ask me if I had any drugs or any pills. So if a white girl finds a brother and he can fulfill he narcotic cravings, it’s a match made in heaven, or grown in a coca farm in Bolivia.
A Few Problems Though
1)Some of these women tend to take this trying-to-be-African-American-thing a bit too far and even decide they will try to be drama queens like, “some of the sistaz they saw on TV.” This pretty much guarantees that a quiet night of socializing turns into a session where she huddles up with ‘her girlfriends’ to talk about, “men aint worth s……”
2) When she tires of the hip hop lifestyle or she outgrows it or the consequences come knocking, she will dump a brother and leave him cold and alone faster than you can say, “She’s my woman and she’s gonna stand by her………”
The Mandingo Fantasy
In truth, this fantasy probably plays a role in almost all cases of Jungle Fever. This fantasy basically reduces all young black men all over the world into strong ebony love-making Gods with elephant trunks swaying between their legs and the love-making skills of Don Juan in his prime. Women who strongly by into this fantasy tend to have either watched too much interracial porn or too many movies that talk about how, “brothers are packing down south.” Now I am yet to meet an African man who is willing to argue against this fantasy or attempt to disprove it in any way. I am not about to but it’s definitely something that’s there and you should know about.
However, if you wanna know what type of women regularly try to test out this fantasy to see if it matches reality, generally they have characteristics 1 through 4 in the list above.
So What’s the Point? What Should We Do?
Well this depends on what you want. What my friend promised me at Carnivore is true. If you are coming to Australia just to get laid without regard for the type of person you sleep with, you can. All you have to do is hang around the night clubs and flatter people here and there. In fact a friend of mine’s strategy consists of him going to a club sitting down, drinking and waiting for a white girl to come and flirt with him.
However, if you want good quality relationships, as is always the case, it is very difficult to find. What I would advise is you best be bringing something else to the table rather than a promise of a trunk long enough to choke a gorilla. The people who get the quality tend to be very interesting special people; They may be good looking. They may have a very endearing idiosyncrasy. They may be so smooth they can skate on sand. They may be extraordinarily gifted at business, writing (that’s me 
lol), sports, academia whatever. I think the solution to the quality problem is, as much of a cliche as it is:
Know what your passions are. Pursue your passion with vigour and intensity and if you grow a garden beautiful enough, people will come. In truth, from an empirical standpoint, I am not really sure what the solution is. However,I will definitely make it one of the points of this blog to answer that question. I really hope this blog has served.
Before you leave make sure you leave a comment below and let me know your thoughts. Until then, stay off the porn.
If you want more articles that talk about the African immigrant experience, make sure you subscribe to the blog for either free email updates or to receive regular RSS updates ( Click on this link to learn just what the heck RSS is )
Be blessed and bless others,
Mwangi
For the women reading this, your situation is a lot different from this from what I have observed and studied. This will definitely be a topic of future posts. If you have any thoughts, any ideas, any thing, you think you missed, either leave a comment below or contact me and let me know.
Update: Many months later I did write the article: Jungle Fever 2: The Relationship Between White Men and African Women
154 Responses to “Jungle Fever: The Relationship Between African Men and White Women”
Trackbacks/Pingbacks
- Can Africans and white people get along? » The Displaced African
- 10 Life Changing Tips from an African in the diaspora » The Displaced African
- 7 Tips Regarding Racism in Australia » The Displaced African
- My Story as an African Immigrant: Introduction and Part One » The Displaced African
- My Story as an African Immigrant:Part two » The Displaced African
- I Need Your Help » The Displaced African
- What Was It Like Saying Goodbye to African soil? » The Displaced African
- Jungle Fever 2: The Relationship Between White Men and African Women » The Displaced African
- A Few Quick Thoughts About Jungle Fever » The Displaced African
January 18th, 2008 at 5:44 am
Great post! Had to laugh at the “save 50$ a week” part, but felt a little guilty when I actually realized it could (or is) true.
Thanks for a little eye-opener, this is definately one of your better posts
Alex
January 18th, 2008 at 5:51 am
Thanks for the compliment man. It’s gr8 that you learned something. By the time you’re through with the blog you’ll pretty much be an honorary African
January 18th, 2008 at 8:53 am
haha! I can’t wait
January 25th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
It’s absolutely fascinating to me man and I’m glad to see it fascinated you. Which parts didn’t you understand I may be able to guide you in the right direction?
January 28th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Passing through and wanted to tell you I enjoyed my stay
January 28th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
Thank you for passing by. Hope to see you again
February 5th, 2008 at 7:43 am
Hey!, I fell lucky that I located this post while browsing for dating african women. I am with you on the topic of The Displaced African. Ironically, I was just putting a lot of thought into this last Monday.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:57 am
i feel very much offended by your article..i am a white woman and my parner is an african man.none of your five points apply to me.i am an outgoing young woman ex model (not over weight or under weight)studying and about to go to university that just happenned to fall in love with a black man.in the uk its a multicultural society and i have friends from every race and culture.obviously there is still a small minority of narrow minded people like yourself.although, i imagine these cases may apply to some(1-5 points).i fasinated to know where you completed your studies.i imagine the us.i find what you have said may be true in some cases but certainly NOT all,and i feel you are either racist,poorly educated or just do not have enough life experience and knowledge on this topic to write this article.it shouldnt matter about the colour of your skin,just educating and understanding each other cultures
March 4th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
just read over the top of your article and was amazed your study was in australia,,
March 4th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Hey Katherine,
First of all, forgive me, this response will be a little meandering.Secondly, you are right, the post broke the world down into gross generalizations and simplifications and there are definitely exceptions to the rules laid down in the post.I must admit that I admire your anger and outrage at me. It shows that you really care about your partner. He must be really lucky to have you. The post did not occur as a result of academic investigation….rather it came about through people in my home country setting very high expectations for me and my coming over and having those expectations shattered. If you don’t believe me, please begin to observe the African interaccial couples (African Americans and people from the West Indies tend to be in a different category from native Africans) and tell me these stereotypes in point 1 through 5 don’t apply a bit too often. Believe me I am far from narrow minded, perhaps you may be one of the rare exceptions that I should celebrate and promote in the blog. Thanks for stopping by!
March 4th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
I would also recommend that you show this post to your partner and his friends - assuming they are native Africans- and ask them if there is a grain of truth to this article. I have had very little argument against this post or its ideas from the African community. Again, thanks for stopping by, hope you respond with as much passion to my other posts.
PS: I am educated….dem big wurds me use them well (lol):D
March 4th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Aah then I see where one of the problems is. I think one of the problems is you misunderstood one of the earlier sentences in the post. In the post I said something to the effect of these are the type of white women who go for African men and not that ALL white women are this or that. I think if you don’t fall into one of these categories you should chuckle and appreciate the fact that yours is one of those rare beautiful unions.
Hope that clears up a thing or two
March 4th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Finally katherine understand that my conclusions in the article came about as a result of observation. They did not occur in some vacuum in my head or in some anti-whitey black people meeting. They occurred by living in Australia for six years and interacting with 100s of Africans including the ones who have Western girlfriends and interacting with Western people myself while I was here. I think if this article is a sad reflection upon anyone (after all, isn’t the old adage that behind every great joke there is a tragedy) it is a sad reflection upon the African man and the way he is perceived, the way he perceives himself and the choices that he makes as opposed to a negative reflection upon white women. After all, in the end of the article I give my opinions on those people who have had outstanding interracial relationships - who here are sadly in the minority. I guess you are right we shall simply have to agree to disagree. Should this article bother you and offend you so much and you be determined that what I am saying is hogwash I am more than willing to interview you and your partner either over written word or audio and post it up as a ‘model of what is possible’. After all, that’s what my site is about. Is that fair?
Btw for those who are wondering what the heck am I talking about, Katherine has been writing to me via email and I am trying to put the conversation out there in the open for everyone to participate.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
I can’t believe you were foolish enough to believe white women would be waiting at the airport for black men(or any group of men ). That was somewhat amusing, however the stereotyping is a bit disheartening. You should always treat everyone as an individual and if this is the only type of white women you have met, you should get out more.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
@ Caustic: Oh my dear if we were to go through all the stupid things I have done and believed over the course of my life, we would be here for days on end.
I think I should make it clear that in this article I wasn’t stereotyping as much as I was trying to describe in a humorous manner what I have observed. Never forget I believed that at the airport I would be met by Jennifer Hawkins lookalikes and thats how life was for all African men. If the stereotyping disheartened you, how do you think I felt watching my expectations getting knocked down one by one.
As for going out more, you are probably right, we will see what I have to say about this article, a year from now.
March 17th, 2008 at 10:20 am
And when I say you need to get out more, I am not talking about going to clubs, IMHO, that is the worst place to meet someone.
March 17th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
On that we both agree. Going to the club to get a life partner is like buying a Hummer to conserve fuel: it only makes sense if you’re really twisted (hmm, I just came up with that metaphor, surely there are better metaphors around)
April 5th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Mwangi, why are you justifying yourself and your comments to these white women who are “offended” by your insights into what I believe is right on the money! I totally agree that there is a pattern and whether these women want to admit it or not, it’s happening, consciously or not. I have to add that in some sense it applies to Black women of non-African heritage as well. I’m disappointed after reading such an entertaining article full of “generalisations …” you now back pedal just because someone with $50 worth of groceries shows you her fridge. And please, I really don’t want to hear from any of you white women who are offended by what I have to say to Mwangi. P-leeez.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
The penny just dropped, a website that is an innovative way to meet the 5 types of Australian women. My bad. Cheers.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Hey extinct, thanks for defending my article. I want to make sure that absolutely everyone who reads the article understands where I am coming from.That’s why I am going to painstaking lengths to explain where I am coming from. In addition to that, indeed this blog is about moving beyond those generalizations to a much better place. That’s just me and the way I blog really. Yet again, thanks for sticking up for me.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
@extinct: I didn’t understand the second comment.
Btw, please share what you have observed in terms of black women of non African heritage (isn’t that an oxymoron); I am always curious as to the female side of this equation?
May 18th, 2008 at 1:54 am
We-ell, you can’t all be Kofi Anan, Tiger Woods, Seal, Christian Karembeu, Patrick Kluivert, to name but a few… (meaning: check out their wives).
OK OK, a bit lame perhaps, but I’m trying to make a point - what about the quality of the men themselves (never mind their colour).
And who could object to this: http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.geocities.com/mclane65/th
May 18th, 2008 at 1:59 am
@peetee: Whereas there is no denying that there are outstanding individuals and great people in every single race….I am discussing the cultural tendencies of African males. The individuals you have discussed are outstanding men..I was referring to the tendency of majority of “ordinary” (does that word really have any meaning) African men.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:14 am
I just stumbled by and dude, this is HILARIOUS!! I almost cried with laughter when I read those stereotypes and then scrolled down and saw that picture!! Please, you don’t really sleep with chicks that fat? Do you?!?!? Please say no!!
And Katherine, chill out, he did say ‘in general’ after all. I only know one other White girl who is dating an Afri boy, a Zim boy to be specific and she totally fits into the ‘Wants to Be Down’ category. I’m so happy that I don’t fit into any of the categories.
Is it really that hard to find a nice White girl who doesn’t fit those categories? Hmmm maybe it is.
I know it never occurred to me to date an African, the thought just never crossed my mind…until that fateful day when the Ugandan boy dropped his do fuck-not-with-I-and-I look and smiled at me…and I was hooked.
Save you $50 a week, ROFL!!!
May 19th, 2008 at 1:20 am
@DeTamble:I can’t say I have had the pleasure of pleasing a kilogramically challenged lady, but that happens A HELLUVA lot. Any African guy I show the article usually just nods his head.
I can’t seem to find any white women dating African men outside of that category…I am holding out hope though…watch this space.
You really can’t make that $50 story up.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:31 am
Woah!! You’re awake! Are you studying or something? A ‘kilogramically challenged lady’ HAHAHAHA! They nod their head? OMG so it’s true, they desperate enough to sleep with FAT girls!! Ewwww! Those poor boys! What’s wrong with the normal Australian girls, why haven’t we noticed the African boys yet!! I guess we’re just a bit slow and sometimes you guys do look a little scary when you wander around in groups, looking all black and buff
I get the $50 thing. Since becoming a student I’ve realised that toast is actually a meal all on its own, no matter how much my Mother disagrees, and that chocolate is fanciful dream that doesn’t really exist.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:37 am
@DeTamble: I work during the night and sleep during the day…wats ur excuse? It’s a mixture of things, it’s not just that their desperate (though a lot of them that’s exactly it), Africans are also genuinely attracted to big women. Some do take even that one a bit tooooooo far.
The article refers to people such as myself who are Fresh of the Boats, for African people who grew up here, a lot of the time it’s an entirely different ball game.
One thing I realized from the short time I was a student, is that food is the last thing on the list of things that people want to buy - clothes, party etc must take priority…….
May 19th, 2008 at 1:45 am
My excuse, oh you know, the usual. I’m not writing an assignment that is due tomorrow
And I have work in 5 hours. Should really make an effort soonish…
Big women…as big as those three girls in the pic? Cause in my opinion that’s a little scary
Those women aren’t fat, they is obeeeese!!
What’s the difference in the girls for the Africans who grew up here?
Food…how I long for thee. As I write this my tummy is grumbling angrily at me and I feel faint but my brand new pair of Bettina Liano jeans are looking mighty fine!!
May 19th, 2008 at 1:53 am
@DeTamble: Ah yes, the assignments….you school kids really do suffer….I can see you are doing some…er…er….research into…the….into…the….how did you find this article, because I would love to know what you were searching for? (I can guess though)
Yeah, some brothers end up out here with some pretty scary looking women…sad but true.
People who grow up here, 2 things happen (a lot more possibilities, but these are the main things I have observed):
a) They kinda go a bit crazy and go against the typical African expectations in one way or many ways (I fall into this category)
b) They buy into the whole gangsta thing waaayyy too much and dumb themselves down. But since they grew up here and know how things flow, these dumb cats get laid quite a bit.
These guys tend to get better looking women….as for personality….in truth I don’t hang about these cats so I can’t give you insider info but from afar it looks like a lot of them go for looks over substance, which I guess is still an improvement over some FOBs who, direct quote,: “end up kissing rhinos .”
May 19th, 2008 at 2:08 am
Yes us Uni kids
I was researching homosexuality in Africa then I got distracted by some African American stuff and then I got even more distracted and Googled black men with white women and WOW!! Americans are fucked!!!! Anyway…lets not go there.
I find gangsta a little weird, you’re right, like they dumbed themselves down. And they keep calling girls baby, gah, we do have names!
Well, I hope you never are left to get desperate enough to go ‘kissing rhinos’!!
Which city are you living in? Melbourne?
May 19th, 2008 at 2:33 am
@DeTamble: I’m a Melbourne boy all the way. I tried Sydney, but Melbourne just drew me back in. The way my life is going at the moment, me thinks that I won’t have too worry to much about rhinos or anything like that.
Those guys who dumb themselves down sadden me, so much potential, so much access to everything you could ever need and you spend your spare money on grills when a book is $0.99.
You know it always astounds me how popular this article is in Google. It has consistently brought in the most Google Traffic……goes to show you what folks are after on the Internet I guess.
May 19th, 2008 at 2:42 am
You have Google Analytics? I hail from Melbourne, way back, in the Golden days
I’m in Brisbane now, not that I don’t love it here but frankly, it’s just not Melbourne. Sydney smells funny 
99c? That’s far too much! Just steal them from the library like me
Joking, I don’t really steal books from the library…or do I?
Once I posted something titled ‘Watch that Cock grow, I mean Crow’ and it got sooooo many hits, I was astounded and mildly creeped out. Guess the net really is only for sex!
Btw you’ve got a cool welcome message, I like your accent, watch out though, you’re starting to sound a little too Australia, you’ll go home and no one will understand you
May 19th, 2008 at 3:03 am
@DeTamble: LOL! I look forward to hearing about the Brisbane woman dropping the soap because she stole a 20 cent book from a Brisbane Borders
Do I really sound Aussie :O ? How on Earth did that happen? Thx for the kind words. I’ve been an analytics groupie for a while now.
It would be so easy to get traffic by just discussing sex all the time…but I must focus on doing something bigger than that
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:29 pm
MR. Mwangi,
Thanks for providing such article. I believe the “Interracial relationship” mainly between White Women/Black Men caught your eyes and you truly tried to investigate the reasons. I admire your view and it should not be considered something delivered by a white racist as Katherine Said. First of all I would like to tell you I am not white nor an African, I am a man from Indian and traveled different places. I hardly found any interracial couple (or may be less than 3%). There are different reasons as to why few White Women choose Black Men. I intend to add few more reasons out of the clause (1 to 5). Reasons are as under: -
Body development: - Interracial dating among those who are in between 13 to 15 is somewhat common. It is medically proven that White girls get larger and devolve more adulthood than white boys at that particular age (This documentary shown on Discovery Channel). This age is vital as girls enjoy their physical changes and want to find someone who can admire them or share the joy of such feelings. Who do they find? Girls of their age, Elder Sisters at home and sometime obviously Black Boys! Yes Black Boys become more matured during that phase, always act as matured man and that attracts some White Girls where White Boys literally remain as school boys (Nothing wrong in it). For some White Girls this attraction lasts for years and causes a myth that Black Boys are more confident and matured but it is totally false. If they had been confident enough then Africa would be the Earth’s most developed Continent and in fact it is not.
The science of mental life: - It related to compassion. There are lots of stories around like Uncle Tom’s Cabin and about the time of slavery. I don’t know at what extent they were true. I have many white Friends and I simply can not believe that their great grandparents were that inhuman. But myths work like anything. Some stories describe that Black African Men were sentenced to death just for staring at White Ladies. Some White Women feel that it is pay back time and can share their lives with the Black Men for eliminating the sins stored by their forefathers (It is not very common but you may find such cases).
Some women, believe it or not are crime oriented, some women like to mingle with criminals. It is my real experience with many Indian and other women. I really do not know why but it is partially true. They find them more masculine and attractive.
Sometime it is simply love that Katharine described. Yes and this could be normal but it is because of color contrast and different attitude. Some are attracted to other race. It is applicable for both men and women.
High divorce rate causes panic. A white woman deliberately believes that she is superior to her black male partner and this thought leads her to a belief that she might always be adored by her partner.
Ladies (Both Black & White) are equally concerned as to why their men are going for girls from different race. A group of German Girls expressed their annoyance after Boris Backer had married his Afro-German Girlfriend.
Finally I thank you for this article also apologies for any of my comments that you may find offensive. Have a nice day
Regards,
Prakash
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Welcome Prakash and I am glad you enjoyed the article. Interestingly enough, the only point you brought up that seemed to resonate with my experiences was the comment you made about some women liking criminals…..a lot of women, especially Westernized ones love bad boys because of their confidence so…
I think a lot of white teenage girls who go for African men simply do so because of the mandingo fantasy, because they find us attractive AND our confidence. I can assure you, Africans have their fair share of arrogance and I think the fact that our continent is actually still standing after all the pressure it’s been to is testament to that.
People mingling outside of the race, in my opinion, bothers people because they don’t want to lose the potential to keep people for themselves ( well that’s the case with me and African women anyway). You know what, you came correct, you showed respect in my home, whatever offensive remarks you may have made, I will let them slide. Have a good one.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:42 am
Hi Mwangi,
I didnt agree with you so much about what you wrote on Obama but on this one i agree with you 100 %.
I just bumped into this site today but be sure i am going to check in again and again, hope you keep on writing.Kudos
June 10th, 2008 at 7:50 am
@Wanjiku: Thank you for stopping by and I look forward to hearing what you have to say about my other posts. Actually, should you read this, I would love to hear why you disagree with the Obama post.
I am constantly amazed by how little disagreement there is from people of African descent whenever they read this post….I guess the standards and expectations placed on African men just aren’t very high or something like that….anyway, interesting.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
mywangi,
Enjoyed the article and found myself looking for me in it (American white woman). I couldn’t resist adding my own comments on why i have suddenly found myself attracted to african men.
Never dated an african american, simply never attracted.Moved to Thailand about 4 years ago and went through the rites of passage,namely, dated thai men.
Here is where the size comes in, I’m no big fatty but definitely curvy (size 12 American) but here in thailand, that is mammoth. Men are really small here, there is no social taboo telling someone they are fat and by thai standards, I am. A girl can start to get a complex!
Along comes the random African man (please note: NOT African American). Here is what hooked me: #1 The voice: very deep and laced with a sexy accent (sorry, i just melt when its French - Hence, not the American). #2 Their size: After dating tiny thai men, Africans just felt like real men - made me feel like a woman (petite, feminine). At this writing, I’ve never gone back. (one is reminded of a certain cliche` here. . .)
Ah, but alas, my limited experience with African men has allowed me to make my own sweeping(somewhat negative) generalizations about them! I’ll apologize now if i offend, but here goes: #1 Sweetest talkers i have ever met, the flattery flows and they are very forward about how much they want you. #2 Possibly the most impeccably dressed men on the planet, they are meticulous in their own presentation, which, if other men don’t know this, is very attractive and (here it comes) #3 Absolute dogs. sorry. I’ve come to sense that African men have a deep respect and reverence for their fathers and i inevitably find out that they are a product of one of their father’s relationships because he, of course, has had many. Serial fatherhood may be a common cultural trait (enlighten me with the stats if you’ve got them) but it creates in this western woman the realization that she’s with a player.
It makes me sad that I’ll never have a real, long term relationship with an African man, I’m simply knocked out by them. Of course, this player stereo is applicable to all races but my own experience has taught me to proceed with caution (translation: run like my hair’s on fire!)
thanks for allowing me to sound off.
lis
June 13th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
@lis: Hello and welcome to the tDA. Well, everything you have said is pretty much on point and applicable as far as I can tell to African folks:
a) We are indeed impeccable, to a very large extent, when it comes to dressing and hygiene. In my culture for example, men don’t take pride in farting in front of each other and other folks for sport, something which is quite common in other folks.
b) Most of us think relationship commitment is an oxymoron and indeed African men can be very smooth tongued and up front.
Nothing you have said offended me at all, it all seemed very on point.
Thanks for sharing your experiences and adding them to the record on this blog.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:33 am
Wow.. I just happened to stumble across this article today. Now while i can completely appreciate the humor within your five types of western women. ( stero types do exsist for a reason do they not ? ) and I myself fit into the “big girl” category i do not however fit the low self esteem or ugly criteria. I’m confident in myself, I know I am a very attractive woman I’ve done a lot of plus size modeling in the past not only am I heavy but tall as well around 5′10″. A lot of men like a girl of size. But I digress I also agree COMPLETELY with what Lis said in her post about African men. I also would like to add that there is a sense of reverse racism ( at least in my experience) This is my experience. I met a very attractive smooth opereating guy from Tanzania, he was very upfront about how the things he wanted to do to me. From the moment he walked in his eyes where on me like i was the last biscuit on the plate and he hadnt eaten anything in about 3 weeks. Everytime i would glace his way he was staring at me with this little smirk and gleam in his eyes like “i’m gonna tap that ” anyways there was some alcohol involved and dancing and music one thing led to another… Fast forward to now I’m getting ready to give birth in Septmenber to a baby girl by this guy. He has been completely unsupprtive says he does not need to take a paternityt test because he “knows” its not his baby he could never get a white girl pregnant. I also later found out that he already had an African girlfriend during the time we where together and that basically this guy likes to fuck white women but they are not worth anything more than that to him and from talking to other people i know this seems to hold true for a lot of them. There are a lot of white girls who in a moment of weakness or poor judgement end up getting pregnant to these guys and they just move on …. spreadin their seed like its nothing. This is really sad and unfortunate for these kids . I dont know why I am venting all of this . It helps tho as you can imagine i have a lot of frustration at the situation. It’ s not that i really want to be in a relationship with this guy he’s proved himself to be arrogant and lacking a heart and just plain cruel and cold. But i do want him to own up that he has a resposibility for his actions and maybe it will teach him to keep his Mandingo in his pants ( a term btw I was not familiar with till i met him and he would talk about how wanted to give me his mandingo or “big black african cock” . just some thoughts and general venting . I dont know maybe you can shed some light on the situation . I’m just at a loss.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:41 am
@Dawn: Unfortunately your situation is far too common…..I think you are a bit more blessed than some of the other white women that get lied to. For example, there are those relationships that Africans get into “for the paperwork” and while they may whisper sweet things in your ear on one side, on the other, they brag to African people about how they can lie and manipulate natives of said country.
Where I say you are lucky is you saw his clear intention early on and are now able to address it. He will probably never own up willingly and so whatever you do understand that indeed that reverse racism you were talking about does exist and I may not know about your situation personally (hence my opinion is based on my experience and stereotypes and isn’t worth a grain of salt) but the chances of him stepping up, owning up and doing the right thing are close to nil.
The one thing that a lot of us share is right before we leave, either our mother, grandmother or aunties will say, “Don’t bring us a white woman.” (with white being essentially anything other than African, usually a native of whichever country or tribe your from).
Hope this information has helped you understand and navigate the murky waters of what must be a trying time. I’m sure your child will be gorgeous.
June 23rd, 2008 at 4:41 am
Thank you for your replay. You have pretty much confirmed what i was thinking all along. in regards to ” dont bring us home a white woman ” thing. I find it to be really sad that there are still such lines and resentments towards another person based on things such as race , sexuality, culture , weight ect. while these may be components of a whole they are by no means the whole of a person there are factors infinite and unknown to every one and every situation. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and writings I am finding them to be very enjoyable as I am always open to good conversation and things that make one think . If you have my space I would love to add you as a friend there I have my setting on private tho ( too many random pervy guys with the “hey youve got nice tits , we should fuck ‘) I have some selected things written there as I am really just starting to get into the whole blogging thing and i find it a good way to keep in contact with friends ( easy to do to !! Im not the most computer literate person) at any rate here’s my link
http://www.myspace.com/chaoticheaven
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:57 pm
@Dawn: I am glad I was able to be of some use. I am not a myspacer and am barely a facebooker as is so unfortunately can’t add you to myspace but can definitely add you to my facebook.
As for the whole, don’t bring me a white woman thing, it may not be politically correct to say but I kinda see where it comes from: people in our communities never want to lose the good members or the members with potential within it. And considering how weak and bruised and battered our African communities are we need all the good people we can get. What I absolutely abhor is the callousness with which so many of my African compatriots enter interracial relationships with zilch concern for the other party and only thinking about themselves.
June 28th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
I read your original post and some of the responses. I am a white American woman. I was married for 9 years to a white man and after my divorce, dated both white and black men. I have been married for 11 1/2 years to a black man, both of or second marriages. His first wife was black. I love men in general but find myself more attracted to black men. My husband told me that when he first met me, he knew that I was comfortable around black people. At one time, my house mate and best friend was a black female. He tells me that many white people do not seem genuinely comfortable around black people. I have my own theories about why I am attracted to black men. None of them seem to be in line with your theories. I am a bit overweight right now, but this is recent. Most of the time when I dated black men, I weighed about 105 lbs. I am 5′6″ so I was not overweight at all - in fact, quite the opposite. When I was 14 years old, I became involved with a 14 year old black boy. He was kind, handsome and he was crazy about me. I went with him for almost a year. This was in 1973. I was shunned by many of the white boys at my school. The ones that gave me the hardest time were the ones that I would never have given the time of day. I was head cheerleader for the middle school cheerleading squad and trust me, I never had a problem getting or keeping a boyfriend. I pretty much had my pick and the white boys at my school could not handle the fact that I chose a black boy over them. Later, when I moved up to high school, my black boyfriend and I broke up. White boys began dating me again, but they always expected me to apologize to them for my previous choice and say that I had made a mistake. Even when I was in my late 20s I dated, for a short period of time, a man that had attended the same high school that I had attended. He never knew that I had dated a black guy in middle school because he was 4 years older than I. About 6 months in to the relationship, he came home and told me that one of his friends that was my age told him that I had dated a black guy in middle school. My response was “so what?” I despised him after that. In my opinion, black people in general are less judgemental than whites. I have seen black men that are 5′ tall that have 2 or 3 women fighting over them. Short black men do not seem to have the “little man” syndrome that short white men have. The same goes for bald men. Black men don’t seem to have a self-esteem problem if they are bald, but white men freak out over it. I say that to express that African men, be they African immigrants or African American are not as judgemental as white men. My husband works as an electrical contractor. He tells me on the job sites that the skinniest stick woman can walk by and all of the white guys will go on and on about how good looking she is. Don’t get me wrong, by the time my husband and I got married I weighed about 120 lbs. and although he does not like skinny women, he probably would never have dated me had I been very large. I do not consider myself judgemental. I love people of all races. I have heard women make comments of other women about weight or other flaws. I just don’t notice that sort of thing about people, especially people that I care about. You could put me in a room with 20 men - 1/2 of them white and 1/2 of them black and I would probably pick a black man as a companion every time. Maybe it takes me back to that 14 year old “puppy love” feeling, who knows, but plain and simple, black men turn me on. And, just so you know, I don’t drink or do drugs, I am not what most would consider “fat” and my family loves my black husband….. it is not really tabu for me. Maybe I am an exception, but I don’t really think so.
June 28th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
@hijack323: Today everyone leaving comments has such unique first names
Perhaps you are the exception to the rules. Make no mistake about it, my opinions on this matter are not static and do evolve and change depending on what I hear about and experience. So, should I hear enough stories like yours, I will definitely write a Jungle Fever 3.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:20 am
I find this to be somewhat true..especially in the US. It is true that African/black men are naturally(most) attracted to vuluptious women, however I have seen it go waay overboard. It seems like the african/black men I see with these women are very sloppy in appearance..Most of the african men I have known will deal with these women for papers. Most black american men deal with these women because they think they are easy in all aspects(money,sex,able to walk over them).Of course I believe there are some VERY sincere relationships..howeve it is sad that this is the first thing most of us think when we see a black man with a non black female.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:35 am
@liberiangirl: Indeed, the way in which we dehumanize people from other races and communities and reduce them into nothing but means to an end (papers, cheap sex etc) is pretty sad.
It also saddens me how 6 years later, I am still yet to see an African man who hasn’t converted to the church of gangsta rap who has gotten women high up the socioeconomic ladder in Australian society.
The crude truth about that is probably than when it’s all said and done, we aren’t very high up the socioeconomic ladder in this society and have a lot of work to do: after all isn’t the women one can get usually a pretty crude measurement tool for measuring the worth of a man in society
July 30th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
This article is rubbish, I read a bit & couldn’t read anymore what a load of Tripe,
Maybe the dude should just accept he’s an ugly guy surrounded by other ugly guys & simply can’t attract pretty white girls, well thankfully I’ve not had the same sorry experience as him.
I tend to stick to a particular type, my type, that means educated, slim, proud, confident with no hidden issues or agendas (I don’t like fat girls sorry) I like girls who are progressive & ambitious, the type of girl who makes me feel proud to have on my arm, Who’s proud to have me as well, I don’t compromise my taste which it seems the writer does, I also don’t put any women up as trophies, LOL! We are all just as important, I just think the writer sounds insecure, I don’t need someone to bolster my Ego by telling me white chicks love black dick, I believe girls will love me regardless of my color & for who I am, well that attitude has always worked for me, I mean lets face it a girl with any number of these issues the guy mentions could be of any race not just white.
July 30th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
@Nomadi: Welcome to the Displaced African, you certainly came in with a whole lot of passion. If you indeed are exactly who you say you are, then you my friend are the type of people who I want to learn more from. I want to understand what you are doing that my peers are not.
I think it’s definitely because of the informal and crass language in the post, but I have been very disappointed by the discussion in this post because it seems no one so far has focussed on the final section of the post which begins
So What’s the Point? What Should We Do?
Instead people focus on the nature of the article itself or discrediting or proving the ideas within the post. I wrote that post many months ago and by this point I truly “am over” getting that message behind the post out there, I want to discuss how collectively as a people we will rise above the flaws expressed in the post.
As for my insecurity, that post can’t even begin to capture the full extent and nature of my insecurity or that of my peers, let’s work on that, let’s fix that. Let’s not just point it out and leave it at that, let’s outgrow it and move on to bigger and brighter things.
July 30th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Hello Mwangi,
Your article disappointed me, I found the article somewhat dated, it had no correlation with the world we live in today, & its far from the experience of me & many other Black men.
Its all about expectation, it appears many of the readers who agree with this article, have gone into the situation, treating white women like some type of trophy, worth more than anything else, worth more than themselves, I include Mwangi in that bracket, (If he’s who he says he is?)
If a white woman isn’t fat, on drugs or any of the above mentioned sequences by Mwangi, does this mean you achieved the ultimate, LOL!
I don’t think like this, anybody who’s parents taught them to be proud of who they are wouldn’t think like this either, I know nice, pretty girls want me just as much as I want them, regardless of color.
You ask if I’m for real, well I am, but I can ask the same of you? You might be some white racist man who’s discovered a trickish way to air a racist perception of white girls who date Black men? Because the article is in a sense demeaning to Black men & white girls/women, who prefer to date Black men (There are many) “Although I don’t say I’m into this type of white woman” I’m not, nor do I separate women by ethnicity, there are many black/Asians girls who eclipse what Mwangi would describe as a white girl who doesn’t have all the above mentioned problems.
I mean look at David Bowie, Robert De Niro & Boris Becker (All white men who prefer black girls)
This article simply talks of a stereotypical attitude many whites may have/ or want to have about white girls who date Black men, so does Mwangi!!? Have a hidden Agenda here? “The picture shows you as a black man”
I’m African my Daughter is half Tibetan, (Which makes her Mum full Asian), My current Girlfriend is (White) Russian suffice to say, both are slim & beautiful + both had never been out with Black guys prior to me, I didn’t present myself as black/or a white wannabe, (I AM BLACK) “I’m me” Its the same as an insecure dweeb relying on how racist/backward a girl might be to help snare a woman, If the white woman is not prejudiced then the white guy with the expectation his chances are better than the average black doesn’t have a clue what to say to the white woman, (They might have nothing in common)
A white man who snares a white woman on the basis he expects her to like him more because he’s white, is of cause an example of an insecure white man, this man is not depending on his attraction as a man, he’s depending on how prejudiced the girl might be, to rely on this, is kind of lame, LOL! Be yourself walk up to a woman you’ll be more likely to get her, don’t compare yourself to anyone else, stereotypes are just that, “stereotypes”
I’ve had many beautiful girls & also a few not so beautiful girls, lol! They choose me over other Black/White/Asian guys, but the choice wasn’t made on color alone, like many silly guys might think, it was made on who I am, (I’m sure I’m not unique in having a beautiful girl choose me over others)
I’ve also been to many clubs with a beautiful white girl, where there are thousands of beautiful white girls, a black guy comes in & proceeds to make a play for the one solitary white female who is with me? These men carry the same misconceptions & insecurities your article perpetuates, “that the girl likes Black men specifically & will be easier for them to approach, because each man thinks or wants to think he’s the Alpha, I never compare myself to other men, “I’m the best me” I put all my energy into that, (being me.)
Not to mention I’ve also come across white men who are convinced a white girl will choose them over any black guy/me, when this does not materialize, they walk off in a huff insinuating one or all the claims Mwangi makes. IE, the girl must have one problem or the other, I found this even more true with ethnicities like Italians, Spaniards, Greeks, Arabs & some Indians not necessarily white in London some are quite evolved, they expected the girl to go with them based on whiteness & were annoyed when this didn’t happen, & would often accuse the girl of being fucked up.
In a sense its a perception by some backward whites that there must be something wrong with a white woman who goes with a black man, LOL!
I find the stereotypes here wholly untrue, my girl has a masters Degree & like I said she’s beautiful, the only guys who come up to her, regardless of knowing she’s with me, tends to be the more insecure guys who don’t rely on who they are, but how white they are.
I disagree with the article & question its authenticity & agenda, Albeit Mwangi could be being honest (admittedly) & the scenario he describes might be found some places, but my point is I’ve not found this attitude personally, & I know many other African males who date normal white women as well, of all shapes & sizes, the same way whites find white women “all shapes & sizes”
To conclude; “What do we do about this problem” First I’ll have to disappoint in the sense that because I haven’t witnessed this so-called-problem, I don’t have a solution.
But don’t listen to stereotypes they are misleading, Man (The Norse) used to believe the world is flat, that should pretty much explain why people should think of themselves as individuals rather than define themselves by ethnicity. That advice is for black & white guys.
I know many white guys, who I’ve only seen with ugly girls, or girls who take drugs & have weight problems, so maybe the question should encompass most men rather than singling out black men.
Nomad,
July 30th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
@Nomad: Thanks for engaging me, man. You cannot know how glad I am that you took some of that indignant energy and sublimated me to engage in discussion with me, I truly appreciate that.
.
If I may ask, what is your background? How long have you been abroad? I am who I say I am, I am Mwangi so no need to worry about this being some cheap racist ploy, this blog has 180+ articles aside from this one, I think that’s way too much effort just for one article
One small distinction I should have made early on that has definitely become distinct over time is that the article refers predominantly to Africans fresh off the boat. Seriously, you have never seen this problem?
That’s fantastic! Tell me in which country you live? What’s the culture like?
July 30th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
I’m from the UK, Of West African parentage although I was born in North London, but as you can appreciate I have many Africans friends & they are just like me, with the same attitude, so they are never held back by stereotypes, In the UK we tend to blame the person for being racists not ourselves, for example I normally dismiss a girl with issues about race as “having certain problems”
If you look at many other aspects of that girls life you’ll find many of those perceptions about this type of girl are true.
For example some times I’ve had a white girl, say to me, “Why do black men prefer white girls” I put them to right in no uncertain terms, I can’t speak for all Black African men, but? Why does any woman have to be so insecure? Can’t she think I chose her not a whole race, & that I’m with her does not mean I’m with her in preference to someone else, I love all women, its strange, by a woman saying why do you prefer white women, she’s implying the guy has to do all the running, if he did then how the hell did this white girl end up in my bed? She must have done some running as well, nobody is a helpless wall flower, but like I said this scenario implies the girl is insecure & using race to bolster her ego.
I’ll add that America & Australia are not very good places to observe this type of scenario, they tend to be very insular places, the proof is in this pudding when these same girls come to a place where people are less prejudiced they blend because they don’t want to be left out.
The white American & Australian girls tend to blend when they come to London, & most people tend not to take on the problems of the average racist as their own problems, IE, A girl with racial issues tends to be described as;”She has some problems with race” These are her problems not mine or black African peoples, so why take on board anybodies problems? Be it fat girls, druggies, racists, wannabe cools, the whole shebang LOL!
Most good looking African people are viewed by some to be more exotic than a good looking person from their own ethnicity, their are too many issues here to settle with one, but its not really the way you see things Mwangi,
Like I said I no many African guys who just came to London observe the vibe & blend in.
Have to go.
Nomad.
July 30th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
I rushed my last reply, but I’ll reply in more detail later.
July 31st, 2008 at 12:02 am
@Nomadi: What I have tended to find, and you will probably appreciate this, is as much as it may seem that the article is about race I think something more key to all of this is culture. Someone who has been in the UK as long as you have will probably have very different nature of relationships from someone who has been abroad as long as I have - 6 years - as with someone who has just arrived as with someone who has been abroad for many years but has refused to assimilate culturally and socially.
I have tended to find that people who were born here or folks who have been here as long as I have or longer have infinitely higher levels of success - from a superficial standpoint only i.e. beauty, social standing of the woman etc, the deeper aspects are another story. From my experience this is simply because over time one is forced to assimilate into the host nation’s country or in your case, grows up with an understanding of all the nuances and idiosyncrasies of it.
Actually from what I have heard and my experience, Australia is probably the most open and tolerant society around. In comparing notes, whenever we engage in reductionism and try to reduce nations to simplistic characteristics, the general characteristics that come up are:
America: Big and everything is very rushed. Nice mix of people who are open and people who could care less.
The UK: Not a friendly society, people joke it’s because of the weather (NB: I only traveled to the UK when very young so can’t confirm or discredit this)
Australia: Friendly people and waaayyyyy too slow for some (personally I love the pace of life here but to each his own).
What type of relationships with white women do people your parent’s age have?
I am sorry to have so many questions, the difference in culture that occurs from living in the West for different periods of time fascinates me and since you are exactly the type of person I wrote this article to attract, your insights are super appreciated.
July 31st, 2008 at 7:18 am
I respect your point of view, but like I said, it depends on how high your expectations are & what you are willing to settle for, no one is forced to go with the type of girl they don’t really want, & like I said although I was born in the UK, I have plenty cousins & friends who’ve not been in the UK long but do not compromise themselves or conform to these stereotypes you mention. they get beautiful girls of all ethnicities, I agree with one thing, there is a degree of trial & error in the beginning, “feeling the waters so to say” but this is true of everybody (All ethnicities) who start at a point to learn about women, if the man settles with a woman who is not really the type he wants, this means he believes in the stereotypes you are perpetuating & doesn’t think he can get better.
But I don’t understand what you mean by refuse to assimilate? Assimilating does not mean “compromise your culture” you are not being asked to make a choice, you do what you are happy with, you are confusing the issue if you don’t want to assimilate why want to go out with women who aren’t your culture?
“Actually from what I have heard and my experience, Australia is probably the most open and tolerant society around” This statement is wrong, even on the basis of the way the Australians have treated their own Aboriginals even in comparison to the Maoris of New Zealand, & its well known the UK has more interracial marriages & relationships than anywhere else in the world, which would suggest Britain is much more tolerant on racial issues,
Australians may have a more laid back attitude in regards to other issues, this does not necessarily make them more tolerant of other races.
“from a superficial standpoint only i.e. beauty, social standing of the woman etc”
Again Mwangi, I think this statement applies to everyone not just blacks/Africans, there is a pecking order, but it transcends ethnicity
And you do realize that London, (UK) Is a very multicultural city, you’ll not find only English people here.
I also disagree with your analogy of America, New York is called a melting pot, but unlike London you have several different groups, IE Italian Americans, Hispanic Americans, Irish Americans, Blacks, Whites a multitude of ethnicities, but they don’t necessarily mix & tend to keep to their respective communities, many Americans will confirm this, In the UK people couldn’t care less, you’ll meet more mixed race people in the UK, than anywhere else in the world.
People in the UK, my parents age in mixed ethnicity marriages, are the same as anyone else, some good relationships some bad, its too general a question.
Mwangi lots of the things you mention are problems for all ethnicities, these issues are not specific to African men, when Turks, Indians go to a place they’ve never been they all tend to end up with the worst in the beginning, but this changes rapidly like you say, when all these people become more familiar with the territory & the landscape——–
Unless you believe this stereotype “the only type of white girls an African can get” then you won’t be inclined to go after the woman you really want.
Nomad.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:36 am
@Nomad: Can’t argue with that…makes sense. Hmmm, the only bit of it that I am still unsure about is the comparative level of openness of UK society compared with here. No doubt, since day one Aborginals here have been treated like animals but from what I have seen this harsh treatment is not extended to other minorities - except those who refuse to learn English, that drives many here bananas. Anyway long life to lead, I guess a UK trip is in order one of these days.
August 3rd, 2008 at 6:43 pm
The point is the way the Australians have treated the aboriginals with impunity, is a good indication of how they’d treat someone they consider different from them, (People they consider Inferior to them)
So they might not treat other minorities the same way they do Aboriginals (They are not in a position to, the new minorities are not so much at the mercy of the Australians) & lets face it Australia needs the extra revenue these minorities bring to Australia.
But Mwangi your last post sounds suspiciously like you are defending the prejudice shown by Australians to Aboriginals, on one hand you explain what you think is prejudice shown by Australian girls to African men, you claim only white girls with a multitude of problem go for these African settlers in the next breath you tell us the treatment of immigrants is not so bad & the Aboriginals are treated far worse, which is it? Are African men treated well or bad?
Which means the whole articles purpose is wasted if you think the treatment of Aboriginals is ok & Australia is not at all a racist country (Because they treat other immigrants better than Aboriginals).
August 4th, 2008 at 7:49 am
@Reginald Alaneme: Forgive me for a brief digression before I begin to answer your post specifically, but it has amazed me how much people have read between the lines and searched for subtext from the Jungle Fever article when ultimately the article wasn’t that deep or strategic, I mean it had some depth no doubt, but I am starting to feel that some people feel as though I am using the post to run for office or something, it’s something interesting I have found
I think there is a difference between how people act when it comes to romantic and sexual relationships, how people treat acquaintances, how people treat people in the work place and how people from one group treat people from another group in general.
Jungle Fever was an article that discussed romantic and sexual relationships. In that article, I actually didn’t talk about how African men are treated within this relationships, I simply spoke about the type of women who gravitate towards them? I have heard a lot of African men talk about how well these relationships work from them and a few lament at how badly they went for them. So to answer your question specifically, in romantic relationships, as far as I have seen and heard, African men are treated well (many times better than some of our more immature and self-centred brothers deserve to be, but another post for another day) and some are treated terribly.
Now, the way Australian society has treated Aboriginals historically and the results that is having today is quite possibly one of the most callous and barbaric things I have ever seen in my entire life. Captain Cook and his crew behaved as though they were animals hell bent on blood and Aboriginals are quite possibly the hardest hit minority I have ever met in my life, in fact I rambled incoherently about this on this post:
http://www.thedisplacedafrican.com/144/comparing-africans-with-indigenous-people-south-africans-and-african-americans/
However, me, my family, my friends and other African people have been treated very well, especially when we compare our experiences with what we have heard about in US. In fact if you visit some African forums, many Africans talk about how sad it is that we are treated so much better than Aboriginals who are sometimes treated like animals.
Is Australia a racist nation? Because of the Aboriginal situation, I agree with you entirely, the answer is hell yeah.
Hope this clarifies things.
August 12th, 2008 at 3:27 am
this is a very candid observation of what Jungle Fever truly is!
August 12th, 2008 at 6:17 am
@3N: Thanks, if you have any insights to add to all of this, please feel free.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:53 am
Hi Mwangi, I just found your site and I am enjoing it very much so. I am a WM from the USA
August 16th, 2008 at 12:57 am
@Gene: Thank you for the kind words and welcome
August 17th, 2008 at 9:24 am
Mwangi, I have experienced the white man’s dread ( to borrow from Todd Wooten, he wrote White Men Can’t Hump ). When you speak honestly about your experience, it helps me so much. I releate to those fanatsies of being “all that” to women. When I see that we are the same in that way, I can see how much we all are alike, no matter what color on the otutside. Its a shame us white dudes have been so insecure and have abussed your people because we tried to live the fantasy that we were better.
Im sure that the fantasy of a super lover causes lots of white women to want to explore with black men. I know its not just drug addicts, and fat women. It may be that women in general are more open to new things, while us guys are closed and we want to “protect” our women. Only us white guys can pass on our seeds in white women. lol. You may have those protective feelings about black women?
Anyways thanks for the great site!
September 6th, 2008 at 11:14 am
What’s up Mwangi,
I was just strolling through Google and stumbled on the above reference to my book (thanks Gene, though I don’t even know you, LOL!). The reference the gentleman made was accurate, but I believe this chapter excerpt would be much more fitting. This excerpt is from the Chapter “Once you go Black, you don’t go Back. Why?”
Keep up the good work.
Respectfully,
Todd Wooten
The author of White Men Can’t Hump (As Good As Black Men)
http://whitemencanthump.com
“Once you go Black, you don’t go Back” is hardly a Myth, because in
most cases it’s an easily confirmed reality. The reason the focus of “Once
you go Black” is primarily on White Women, is because they suffer the
harshest treatment for betting Black, and they have the hardest time going
Back. To fully appreciate these occurrences you need to look at the reasons
why women, primarily White Women, go Black to begin with. I’ve read a
lot of different viewpoints on this subject, and I’ve witnessed the turmoil
and the ups and downs firsthand. The most accurate assessment I’ve read
on this subject is from Emily Monroy, who is a guest columnist for The
InterRacial Voice and co-editor of the magazine Urban Mozaik. Ms.
Monroy’s editorial entitled InterRacial Sex examined the 3 Most Common
Stereotypes applied to White Women who stray from their herd and sleep
with men of color. Even though her stated focus was on why Whites believe
Inter-Racial dating occurs, the result was actually more about how White
Women who stray from their herd are perceived by other Whites. I still
found her editorial very compelling and very applicable to the “Once you
go Black” phenomenon. Ms. Monroy is a White Woman who only dates
men of other Races. She’s stated in her writings that she’s had a Mexican
boyfriend, a Filipino Boyfriend, and a Lebanese ex-Lover to name a few.
She also stated that:
“At this point in my life copulating with a White Man seems about as
exciting as eating Wonder Bread for breakfast (boring!!!).”
On that note, I’ll let Ms. Monroy explain how White Women are perceived
when they occasionally stray from the herd, and then I’ll explain why they
strayed from their herd and why they usually don’t return once they’ve strayed.
Emily Monroy’s 3 Most Common Stereotypes of White Women who
sleep with Men of Color:
#1 The Slut- A White Girl who willingly sleeps with a man of color is a slut
or so goes the conventional wisdom. It therefore follows that she lacks any
Sexual restraint whatsoever. In places like the Old South, such a woman
faced public whipping, indentured servitude, rejection from her family and
community, and violence from the Ku Klux Klan. Though now the legal
consequences of the slut’s behavior have disappeared, and the social ones
diminished somewhat, the Stereotypes remain.
#2 The Political Activist- The political activist is a left-wing, socially
conscious, politically correct woman, who views involvement with a non-
White Man (especially a Black) as an act of solidarity with an oppressed
group and perhaps as a means of thumbing her nose at society, and rebelling
against her family. If she and her partner have children, she is further
praised in some circles for holding the key to the future of Race relations.
But many minorities and left-wingers are skeptical of her actions. People
of color rightly doubt whether Miscegenation will really sound the death
knell for Racism, given the fact that five hundred years of Race mixing on
this continent and others hasn’t achieved that goal yet.
#3 The Ugly Duckling- The ugly duckling is a White Woman who might
not necessarily get billed as the ‘Ugliest Woman in the World’ at the circus
but who doesn’t turn heads either. In White circles, that is. As soon as she
steps out of Fortress Caucasia, she’s the belle of the ball. Men of color
shower her with attention. In The Color Complex, a Black filmmaker
humorously describes the allure of the ugly duckling: “Over the years a
group of Black Boys grew up masturbating with the White Girls in
Penthouse (adult magazine)….This caused them to go out and date
any 250-pound greasy White Woman they could find, whose only
redeeming quality was that they had blond hair, blue eyes, and White
skin.” The flipside of the ugly duckling Stereotype is the implication that
she goes out with men of color because she’s not good enough. If she were,
she could do better (i.e., catch a White Man). Most Stereotypes are ways
of simplifying complex behavior so that it’s easier to understand.
Anti-miscegenists can explain away the White Woman who consorts
with men of color by saying that she’s immoral (the slut), that she’s caught up
in hopelessly Utopian ideals (the political activist), or that we don’t want her
anyway (the ugly duckling). But in real life things aren’t so clear-cut. True,
some White female partners of minority men might be seeking a Sexual
adventure, trying to fight Racism, or turning to Inter-Racial romance for
lack of any other choice. But most of these women have simply found the
right person who, as one White Woman interviewed in The Color Complex
reported, happens to be another color. As with fornication, adultery, and
promiscuity, a double standard exists around Inter-Racial Sex. A White
Woman involved with a man of color commits the cardinal sin of allowing
an “Other” male to enter her vagina, whereas a White Man who sticks
his private parts into those of non-White Women draws little criticism as
long as his relationships don’t get too serious. White society’s outrage over
Miscegenation has less to do with the purity of the European gene pool
than with that of the Caucasian Female reproductive system.
Ms. Monroy tells it like it is and it’s hard to disagree with one word.
There’s just one more thing I’d like to add to her 3 Most Common Stereotypes.
What I’m about to add is not a Stereotype, but more importantly, it’s the
common bond of her 3 Most Common Stereotypes.
#4 The Unsatisfied- The unsatisfied woman lives within each of Ms.
Monroy’s 3 Most Common Stereotypes.
The Slut is obviously unsatisfied and is certainly searching for
something. A White Woman can immediately earn the title of slut for
sleeping with one Black Man. At the same time, many promiscuous White
Women don’t earn the title of slut for sleeping with numerous White Men.
Is it fair to label a White Woman a slut if she’s slept with numerous White
Men and was unsatisfied, and then strayed from her herd one time?
The Political Activist is obviously unsatisfied and is certainly searching
for something. There are a lot of things you can do to fight Racism and
spreading your legs is not one of them. And just to add to Ms. Monroy’s
comment about The Political Activist deciding to have a Bi-Racial baby.
If the Political Activist decides to have a Black Man’s baby it has nothing
to do with making a political statement. If the Political Activist decides to
have a Black Man’s baby it’s because she was hooked on the pipe. I’m not
talking about the ‘crack pipe’ either.
The Ugly Duckling; I can’t even type that shit without laughing.
Every Black Man knows another Black Man who has a White Woman who
could fall into that category. That shit about masturbating to Penthouse
Magazine is absolutely true. Penthouse, Playboy and eventually Hustler
is what most men my age grew up with. You rarely (if ever) seen Black
Women in those publications. The first time I saw a Black Woman in an
adult magazine was in my Grandfather’s copy of Chunky Asses (he was
well over the age of 70 at the time). This magazine featured Women of all
Races, and none were less than 300 lbs. The Ugly Duckling is obviously
unsatisfied and is also searching for something.
You can label these women with any Stereotype you like, but the
bottom line is, they weren’t satisfied with their herd, so they decided to
stray. Usually satisfaction or lack thereof, plays a major role with these
women. They are either emotionally unsatisfied, Sexually unsatisfied, or
both. Why White Men get pissed off over this shit I’ll never know. When a
White Woman strays from the herd, White Men have no one to blame but
themselves. Just like Black Men have no right to complain when a beautiful,
educated, Black Woman is in the arms of a White Man. Black Women
routinely have to tip-toe through a minefield of Black Men. That minefield
consists of men who are Dogs, Players, Unemployed, Incarcerated, Gay/
on the Down Low or HIV Positive. Other ethnic groups have many of the
same problems; it’s just magnified with Black Folks because there’s a
growing shortage of good Black Men. Black Men who don’t fall into any
of the above categories are considered a “Hot Commodity,” and take full
advantage of the Clean-Cut Brother Shortage. White Guys help their cause
by being selfish spoiled babies.
September 28th, 2008 at 3:13 am
It was interesting reading your post. I’ve seen instances of the stereotype, I won’t deny it. This was when I spent a year in the US (Connecticut). I’m not labeling Americans as “worse” than Canadians (ie such as myself)- what i’ve noticed is the different genetic backgrounds between Americans and Canadians: this was pretty much the only place I was around black people. Where I’m from in Canada (and to where I have returned) every now and again I’ll see black men but it’s just when I go to the city, and even then, the ratio has to be less than 1 in 100. In my home town, the is not one black person. I still grew up aware of the male gangster stereotype and big c&&k rep via TV. Somehow I though it was all BS. I guess I don’t take the media that seriously, but it would also have a lot to do with the amount of exposure I’ve had. Anyway, my concept of blacks was pretty much that they were a minority and simply because of this, they had a battle to face socioeconomically. But that was it. When I think of black men, I think of a taller person (because they were taller in CT, which is probably not the case everywhere), muscular (again, because they were, ON AVERAGE, more muscular than Caucasians), and black. Between that and the fact that they have an undeserved battle to face, I honestly don’t think I perceive anything beyond that. Do I think black men are attracted to the women in that pic? Hell no. But from what I saw, there was some truth the the 5 stereotypes you listed.
Anyhow, I went out with Reg, a black guy when I was there and he was absolutely gorgeous. Had an English degree as well. And he was sooooo sweet. In essence, on hell of a catch. It was interesting because when I told my roommates that I was going out with a black guy, they told me I was putting myself in danger and not to go near him. I didn’t get it. It worried me a little because they all shared the same opinion and I was the only one without experience living with blacks, but I still kept seeing Reg. Well, he is a gem and they couldn’t have been more wrong. Anyhow, in short, I grew up in a pretty remote area, and while I was aware of the stereotypes, they didn’t stick. I was like any person: looking for a caring, smart, cute partner. And Reg happened to fit the category. And he was black. It didn’t go deeper than that. Don’t know what my point is- guess I just wanted to share my experience because while I did appreciate the post, it has not been my experience at all.
By the way, I’m 5′4, 112 pounds, have an honors psychology degree, and think I’m a bit of a catch myself
September 28th, 2008 at 3:39 am
And by the way, the post above mine makes me want to cry because of the truth to it: there are few pics of black women in “men’s magazines”. This is so obviously due to stereotypes- the most attractive women are black. Five years after I moved back to Canada, I married a phenomenal white guy. But he agrees with me too (which initially hurt a bit when he agreed with my opinion, I will admit!). And it’s also true that there’s more poverty, drugs, etc in the black community. That’s also due to white racism and blacks’ internalizing the stereotypes. I’m so sad to admit that this is the case. As a woman, I get so mad when I see women in mags (women and men’s) where they are anorexic, in submissive poses, objectified in the sense that they are used for aesthetic purposes, not recognized for anything beyond their looks, and are also not represented unless they are within the top 2% of looks and under 30 (or have had enormous surgery to look under 30). Hence the vast majority of white women’s low self esteem (of normal looks, not just the ones we discriminate, above).So I can imagine that a similar experience, but compounded, would be so damaging. It hurts me to see- it must really suck to live it. All I can tell myself is that like the woman’s movement, the black movement is happening, albeit slowly. People just can’t relax, especially at the critical point where they could do, since their situation has increased enough to be tolerable (but is still undesirable).
September 28th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
@JoAanna: Hey,
Thank you so much for sharing your story with me. I think reactions such as your stories, combine with the various stories, insults and thanks I have had hurled my way have definitely convinced me that this is a topic area that needs its own separate place to be discussed in depth.
One thing though stuck in my mind about your story. Your friends kept warning you about dating a black man. Few questions:
1) A black man as in African man or African American man or Afro-latino man or all of us bunched together? And if Africans, were they talking about a specific country like Kenya, Nigeria, Ethiopia, South Africa etc etc etc?
2) What did they think was dangerous about dating one?
3) Had they dated one in the past?
4) What were their races? Were they all Caucasian?
October 1st, 2008 at 6:41 am
Wonderful story JoAnna. I applaud your courage and open-mindedness. There’s a new documentary entitled “Interracial Dating in America: Uncovered” (available on Amazon.com) which covers every aspect of Black and White relationships. This documentary features the views of White Women, Black Men, White Men, and Black Women. It then takes the stereotype debate one step further by showing members of each of the groups I just listed, but with opposing views, i.e., Black Women who date interracially and why, and then Black Women who deplore interracial dating and why.
As a nation, America has come a long way. You don’t have to look any further than the candidacy of Barack Obama to realize this, but this documentary is proof that we still have a long way to go.
Peace,
Todd Wooten
The author of
White Men Can’t Hump (As Good As Black Men)
October 10th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Dear Mwangi,
I just found this post tonight while trying to search for different perspectives on relationships between African men and white women. Information in detail about relationships between the two which would provide a different source of insight on the topic.
What I was looking for and will continue to search; is for a perspective where an African man and a white woman who have made a long term relationship between the two cultures work and why. It would also be interesting to hear about why they haven’t worked/ won’t.
The fact that humanity is divided by dynamics of gender, ethnicity/culture, experience & socioeconmics; it seems that anything is possible depending on the variables of the situation. Years ago, my best friend was in a paper marriage with a African man and I have also known persons in relationships with the unfaithful African partner. Stories from other peoples experiences which have perpetuated the negative sterotypes.
I guess what I’m wondering is; Have you ever known anyone who has
been in a long lasting relationship between a African man and a white woman? Is it possible? (I did read all the posts and understand that Katherine was in a relationship with a African man but for all I know she could have met him two weeks prior.) From this blog, my guess would be no. Yet, I will not assume that is the answer. Your a wonderful writer, I might add- I’ll be reading more.
October 10th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
@lovesculture: As I said in the comments above, in my exuberance to write an article (this was one of the first articles I ever wrote and I was in a beautiful writing frenzy when I wrote my first few artcles), I forgot to make a very important caveat:
The article above refers to two types of African people - people who are fresh off the boat either physically or still fresh off the boat mentally.
Speaking as someone who came in my mid-teens and has seen people who have assimilated (such as some of my friends) culturally and people who have not assimilated (such as myself) into the culture of the land, the realities are entirely different.
Because of the cultural match, there are many black men, black teens, black men who have great relationships with white women. In fact, one of my mother’s best friends has a son who has a wonderful great relationship with a white person.
So, yes the relationships do exist, especially for people who come to the new country in their mid-teens or below, for the fresh off the boats, that’s much more tricky because:
Forget what the hype says, to assimilate into your culture, you must discard either elements or the entirety of your previous culture
All this stuff about preserving your old culture while assimilating for the most part is B.S. (I did say for the most part, so there are wonderful exceptions).
Some quick meandering thoughts, hope that helps.
October 13th, 2008 at 3:27 am
@Todd Wooten: I forgot to say welcome to tDA and thanks for the nice long comments and sharing your ideas. Hope they are of use to other readers of this article.
October 16th, 2008 at 9:40 am
well my aim over here is that i need a white woman to get married with ?
October 16th, 2008 at 11:08 am
@daniel: If you are joking, that’s hilarious. However, if you are serious that out of all the things on this Earth you could want, your sole goal is to marry a white woman, then depending on your intention behind that, might be a good thing or might be a very sad thing. I don’t know. I would have to know more I guess………..
November 4th, 2008 at 4:20 am
Hello Mwangi..awesome blog. like you, i used to be a Melbourne guy (for 3 yrs). i’ve just skimmed through some of the posts here, and i agree totally with regards to IR dating in Australia (it seems like we both see through the same lens). i will post my thoughts later about this, but for now, let me say that I have been to the USA via London and what i witnessed in the Northern hemisphere is different with regards to IR dating. i did not see any brothers with ‘kilogrammically’ challenged women whilst in London. I have had cousins and uncles who like me have studied outside Africa, and from their experiences and their observations whilst overseas, it seems to me like us Africans who’ve lived in Australia have gotten the short end of the straw..if you want beautiful, slim but curvaceous, educated (or at least intelligent), cultured white women, Europe seems to be the place…I’ve witnessed this myself…my cousin is now married to a beautiful Swedish woman who studied medicine with him whilst he was over in Sweden (he even speaks the language since it’s a prerequisite to study over there). from the stories of his travels to Hungray, Slovenia, Russia, Norway and other countries that are not used to black people, dating the women of your dreams is not far fetched at all!!..you don’t have to be spectacular like tiger Woods, Obama or Kofi Annan..even ordinary African guys like us can be successful if we just show a bit of courtesy, intelligence, ambition, open-mindedness, etiquette, good upbringing, etc..l8r man..rock on!
November 4th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
@nkosi: Thank you for coming and sharing some constructive forward moving thoughts. What you described sounds fantastic. Though you understand I must be wary of investing in fools good before I see it in my own eyes.
After all, my libido and my ego were boosted sky high before coming to Oz and we all know how that came.
If what you are saying is true though, there might be some archetypes in Europe worth finding, drawing out and presenting to everyone else on forums such as this one……….
November 16th, 2008 at 12:26 am
hi mwangi
well firstly thanks for a thought provocative blog! i’m actually a white aussie woman now living in london. i worked as a teacher with adult african students for many, many years in australia & now i find myself living in london & dating an african man for the first time…so i guess i can try & see the land from both sides of the fence as it were!
i perhaps fit one of your stereotypes in that yes i am a curvy (but not obese) woman but my kenyan partner is more than happy with that & was one of the reasons he was attracted to me in the first place. and yes, i think african men can use a lot of ’sweet’ talk…but this is ok if it’s followed up with genuine action & respect.
i do feel that despite all the race problems in the uk, that it is more tolerant here particularly in the big cities- my partner & i can walk down the street holding hands without so much as a glance as there are many, many inter-racial couples here. australia on the other hand, whilst being a laid back relaxed place to live is i feel quite racist in many ways with lots of narrow-minded attitudes…and i say that as an australian sadly.
i have always dated men from different cultures than my own (middle easterm croatian etc) & have friends from many different backgrounds & have lived in other cultures as well, so i’m a great believer in cross-cultural relationships & friendships as one of the ways forward to tolerance & harmony. that may sound a little idealistic i know but understanding others who are ‘different’ than us really is necessary to breakdown steroptypes & hopefully challenge racism.
i think some of your blog statements may be right…but i also believe that there are enough people in the world enjoying successful cross-cultural/interracial relationships to ensure that there is another story to be told.
November 16th, 2008 at 9:33 am
@Jo: Hmmm, I wonder how accurate that is? I have now heard a couple of opinions about the racist mentalities of folks down here, but so far they are yet to gel with my experiences but should that change I’ll be sure to post about it.
As I said, one of the things about my article is I attempted to diagnose a problem I saw and didn’t give any remedies or solutions - which always irks me when I don’t do that - so any alternative archetypes I am always open to hearing about and more importantly seeing and experiencing so I can record the results here.
November 23rd, 2008 at 12:01 pm
This has definatly been an interesting read…. I should mis-spell words more often in a google search……. Every one seems to have their own little opinion on this subject.. but WoW some of you have really gotten upset over this…
I am first generation American on my father’s side(Persian) and my Mother is well.. a mutt as I put it.. lol.. blonde & her side of my family has been here for ages…… so maybe I see things a little bit differently.
I have never particularly found only one race of men attractive, nor only one “type” of man either…… I have dated African American men, hispanic, middle eastern, native american & most any combination of “white”….. I guess I just don’t particularly understand the “taboo” thing between any combination of races… we are all human are we not?…. I have never understood why the tint of a person’s skin or where they were born had anything to do with who they choose to become as a person… I have never had the pleasure of living anywhere but North & Central America (besides when I was an infant)… but I have seen a lot of these characteristics that you have blogged about….. the first frican american boy I ever dated the only main problems that we had was thoes given to us both by african american females….. when I went to meet his family I discovered that both of his siblings were also in relationships with caucasions….. ok… I’ve just let this comment turn into a rant so I will finish for now
November 23rd, 2008 at 7:52 pm
@Lahna: Thank you for stopping by and sharing your opinion. I have probably mentioned this in the comments above, but the reason that “race” is so important is because it isn’t just about the color of one’s skin.
I have also mentioned this in some post, but most African people before they arrive in a Western country don’t think of themselves as “black” or “African” and don’t ever bother thinking about how this makes them different from other people.
The moment you arrive in the West you fully realize that there is this race of black people, that has its own history (slavery, colonization, oppression, decolonization, civil rights), culture ( familiarity with poverty, women having issues over their hair, light skinned black people being perceived differently from white skinned) and importantly that people react to you differently because of this race and have certain expectations of you.
Much more important, in my opinion, in a country like Australia is the culture you adopt. Here in Australia the lifestyles of a fresh off the boat (FOB) African is extremely different from an African who grew up here or came here when young and is equally as different to an African American’s and all this affects the type of people you tend to attract.
The article above mainly refers to African FOBs and to be honest, in my observation, hardly if ever applies to African Americans or Africans who grew up here………..
November 24th, 2008 at 3:58 am
Thank you for your response! So from what you have said it’s really not abour race at all it has to do with the heritige of the people. I have studied culteral anthropology & it makes sense that the culture that some one was raised in would have a lot to do with these factos rather than the tint or he of their skin. Different cultures have very different ways of veiwing & seeing the world we all live in.
November 24th, 2008 at 4:13 am
@Lahna: Yup, if by heritage you are referring to a culture and all that encompasses definitely.
In fact, to make a somewhat controversial statement, I would even go so far as to say that race and race issues have never been about the tint of one’s skin but have always been more about culture in that it has always just been away of those in power segregating and therefore controlling people.
If race wasn’t used, I am sure folks in power can always use something else, e.g. religion in the current world or gender etc etc etc
November 24th, 2008 at 4:17 am
makes complete sense….. people thuought history have used religion as a way to control the people “below” them…. but that would take me off on an entirely different rant….. so I will be nice & maintain the subject of your page
November 27th, 2008 at 12:08 am
Hi Mwangi,
I’m back..now as a guy who lived & studied in melbourne once for a few years, i see through the same lens as you, but let me make it clear, that what i am about to write only pertains to my observations about IR dating in Australia…and no where else. I have observed that in Australia the percentage of Fresh-of-the-Boat African men dating women who look like the obese ones you posted at the top of this page is extremely high!! it is so obvious that no African who’s ever lived in Australia will disagree with you. now i think those people who are offended by your post don’t realise that you do not mention ALL types of black men..you are specifically mentioning fresh-of-the-boat Africans..who reside in Australia (i hope?!) whilst in Melbourne, i noticed that African American men (or African men who grew up in Australia) generally DO NOT date the type of women we F-O-B Africans date…they do not scrape the bottom of the barrel so to say. I’m not including myself in this, bcos the truth is i never dated any white woman in Australia although i did date IR, even though the obese and/or hideous looking white women used to flirt with me often, and like you, i actually questioned why the FOB African loves the Kilogrammically challenged white woman so much (although i have seen a few exceptions who don’t date those types of white women of course). is it bcos he feels he can’t do better? is it bcos he’s only using her? is she only with him bcos she feels rejected by the white men in her society and he’s the last resort..if that’s the case, then that says a lot about our self worth as Africans. it seems to me that decades of colonization and exploitation the African continent has been subjected to have caused us Sub Saharan Africans to collectively internalize this feeling of ‘less than,’ and this mentality only becomes obvious once we step out to the Western world…all of a sudden you start questioning yourself & thinking of yourself differently. i don’t know about you, but i started questioning my self worth when i came to Australia..which was a blessing bcos it made me soul search and made me stronger. this whole arrogance/ego thing that me and you have observed in some of our african brethren is just a facade to hide some inner insecurities and feelings of inadequacy or ‘less than’. now I’m glad Lahna mentioned that she’s half Persian bcos not all the F-O-B african men i knew who dated IR dated obese and/or ugly white women..a good number of them dated other races and/or cultures of women who did not fit any of the 5 stereotypes you mentioned. i had an rwandan friend who dated a slim, verry beautiful, soft spoken, friendly, intelligent woman whom he happened to be in college with; i knew a zimbabwean chap who was engaged to a beautiful Chilean woman; i knew a few F-O-B africans who dated Malaysian, Indian-Mauritian, Chinese, Indian-Fijian, Israeli, Vietnamese, Croatian, Turkish and a chap with another driven, corporate, well dressed, well groomed, inteligent Sri-lankan women…i totally agree with you when you mention that Sri Lankan women are stunningly beautiful and nurturing. infact, Melbourne women are beautiful period. Melbourne is one of the most multi-cultural cities in the world and it shows!..if you know wat i mean..and hence i ask you Mwangi, have you ever tried looking into potential relationships with other women either than white? infact, why don’t you do some research those Africans who date interracially, but not white..you’ll notice a huge difference…you could even blog about it..that would be interesting…one other thing i have observed, those relationships involving F-O-B African and other non white/non blak women seem to be based on love and mutual understanding and respect, not some of the dodgy issued associated with relationships between white women and black men.
Btw, not all of us Africam men are attracted to fat women. this is a steretype that seems to be making the rounds, but i know in West Africa and many parts of Africa that may be the case, but a lot of African men (especially those from Angola, Mozambique Botswana, South Africa, Namibia, Lesotho and other countries below the equator) like ‘curvy’ women..think Beyonce, Jennifer Lopez, Meagan Good and even Fergie from the Black Eyed Peas..none of these women are fat, but they have buttocks, wide hips, narrow waists, but you can never describe them as fat, let alone obese..in Botswana, these type of women are the standard - slim with large behinds..you’re right! southern Africa is blessed with stunning women..that’s my type of woman, and i know i speak for many African men. i doubt if Somalian, Ethiopian women like fat women either.
November 27th, 2008 at 12:58 am
@nkosi: Thanks for sharing. You know now that you’ve mentioned it, its actually quite amazing the quality of women even FOBs get when they decide to date Indians or Sri Lankans. I can think of some women now who are drop dead gorgeous.
I pretty much agree with you through and through. I have said it over and over in the comments thread. This article is about FOBs. These standards don’t apply for Africans who grew up here or African Americans at all, they only apply to FOBs, especially in my observation, East Africans, Southern Africans and West Africans. I don’t know that many North Africans but considering the huge Arab community don’t here, I would assume they have different standards too.
The reason I wrote the Jungle Fever article, btw if you look its almost a year ago now, was because of how someone set me up with such high expectations which were sequentially brought down.
If I never came with expectations, my experience of Australia would probably have been grossly different. In fact my advice would probably be, you don’t know what to expect because you never know what type of relationship (and with whom) you can get when you come down here.
Will I write anymore about Jungle Fever or interracial dating, probably not, but I definitely want to start up an international dating blog at some point where I get view points from all races and socioeconomic immigrant backgrounds, I think that would be exciting.
Anyway, thanks for sharing nkosi
December 14th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
This article made me sad, because it’s so true! Most women in the West suffer from low self-esteem, due to advertisements, constantly bombarding us with images of the ‘perfect woman.’ So, maybe we see men who are not part of the ‘oppressive white male system’ as more compassionate, but it doesn’t work out that way! I guess it’s just another one of our stupid romantic myths, like you can still find a ‘Mr Darcy’ in England, still!
December 14th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
@Eve: As unpopular as this will sound, I don’t think that Western women, or just women in general, constantly striving for a high standard of beauty (I don’t know why people say its impossible, there are people who are clearly just hot even without the makeup and the bright lights) isn’t just because of marketing.
Its either innate or something that was conditioned into almost every culture in the world at some point for women to constantly want to be beautiful and for the most beautiful women to always be the most desirable.
And you’re right, those who unfortunately don’t fall into the category of “beautiful”, definitely feel less than those who do and this makes them more susceptible to people who may not have the best of intentions.
December 15th, 2008 at 3:57 am
hi Mwangi,
just for light hearted sake, i thought i would paste a post i read on some forum ( i think it’s called sudan forums). i copied some stuff there and pasted it cos it really made me laugh - sorry i forgot the link though. anyway, the title of the post was; “The Obama Effect and how it affects the plight of fat white chicks”….
…-”Until recently the black man in America has not had gourmet picks from the world of white girls, instead he has been restricted to a specific genre of white chics. If you are unfamiliar with the genre I speak of; take sometime in your life and travel to the great US Midwest. Once there, visit any predominantly white night club and observe how American brothas and their African counterparts are drawn to large white chics like Somali pirates are drawn to vessels.It is a phenomenon that anyone who has lived in a US college town will attest to.
The phenomenon is obviously looked down upon by sistas and for good reason. Sistas see it as a blow to their integrity that a brotha would leave a booty-full, intelligent, God fearing and respectful black lady and opt for a white chic. Sistas will quickly brandish such a brotha with “sellout” or ‘not strong enough to handle a black woman’ label. Pundits have been drooling and raving over every move by Obama, analyzing the shit out of Hillary Clinton’s role as Secretary of State and wondering out loud how Bill Clinton can stay so close to the White House with so much free time and not stain another dress. What the pundits are missing to point out is the negative impact Obama’s success is having on fat white chics. Because of Obama, brothas are getting love from all kind of white chics including the hip ‘I could really use a meal’ kind that usually just have ‘a black friend’‘. We are talking here of Café lattes, Chihuahua in a Dolce bag type of chics. The same chics whose collection of novels just got diversified with Obama’s ‘The Audacity of Hope’ and 3N’s soon to be released ‘How to woo an Ivy League Black Man for Dummies & Blondes’.
Those are the girls who are now dipping into the once reserved for fat white girls pool of dark knights in shining armor wielding long weapons of mass destruction. Those Obama girls are ruining a system that has not been perfect but has worked well for white fat chics. Someone needs to urge the Obama-Biden administration not to ignore the plight of the white fat chics. We need to come together and work towards an America where every girl, white or black, large and small, get their fair share of brotha love.”
..i laughed my a** off when i read this. when i read the hread however, some african american dude made it clear that although the predominantly fat white woman phenomenon may be the case in the midwest, in Califormnia and the west it’s not so…although i assume this story was meant as a joke, at least it gives a brother hope that this sorry state of affairs you write about in your article will come to an end, especially when i read one of the replies (which i copied and pasted, which says , “I came from Chicago and was in Houston and went to an African Party not long ago, when all of a sudden several white girls came to the party with their African Friends. The word out was that they are looking for Black Men in the hopes of producing Barack Obama’s of the future. Specifically they were looking for Kenyans. Word is out now, Brothers are really hot these days.”
i’ve now realised you are not the only person who talks candidly about this topic on the internet..even though this is a controversial topic that some people take the wrong way, i always find it very amusing. be well dude
December 15th, 2008 at 4:18 am
@nkosi: Thanks for sharing that. You know, we are yet to fully see what the effects of Obamania will be upon the psyche of four groups: African Americans, Africans, Kenyans and Jaluos and I am waiting to see just what it’ll be.
Even I, a person who wasn’t a member of his groupie train, have had my psychology dramatically shifted by Barrack’s presidency.
There are other people who talk about this??! I have been online full time for almost exactly a year and have never seen other folks talking about this, no wait, I have but usually its in forums, and usually its so mixed in with tongue-in-cheek, rants, unrelated rhetoric and other factors that I never know whether they are speaking truth or just spilling the contents of their rich imagination.
That having been said, we African fellows need to step our game up too man. We can’t remain this low on the totem pole, “No we can’t”
Be blessed too bruh
December 15th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
I think that its time to pass the superficial mind set of ethnicity and come to the facts that there are but two species; regarding humans. That being the man and the woman.
How sad it is for a woman to want to create the next “obama”. (this line is directed toward nkosi)
In reality, mentality is the determination variable coupled with the ignorance of what success is considered. Any person can achieve what they want when they strive for a goal.
There are black men who love black women and white men who love white women; how beautiful. Yet, never forget that if a white man loves a black woman; or a white woman loves a black man; and vice versa
those variables exist and they are a beautiful truth on their own!
The cultural integration; no matter what the difference is a beautiful one; if one is open enough to see it!
We have come to a point in humanity where its imperative to accept it and embrace it; Its not different than the daily meals to which we consume or the daily drink to which we imbibe!
Love is what humanity needs, Judgement needs not to be passed.
That may be the utopia re-stated from past unto the present but it is a truth that if embraced can bring the stability which humans need.
Love is learned, love is earned; and we find it when we look to other directions that we may travel & its not easy.
The way that I love African culture is the same way I love other cultures; in their faults and in their righteousness.
Beauty has been lost because of the way things are seen; not because the beauty is not there.
Much love and respect towards all;
And I have to thank Mwangi for creating this forum opening the hearts and minds; creating this dialog and perspective that spans from the east to the west.
-AnnaliseK./ Loves culture.
December 15th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Well, who am I to argue with such a mellifluously written monologue, and a compliment too
December 15th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
was very wise 2 end up the blog with the stay away from porn phrase
presume the porn thing is pretty involved here though im sort of positive that some ladies find tanned or dark guys basically interesting with no inferiority complex 2 relate 2 or 2 much watched porn
December 15th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
@magoo: I detect a dash of a condascending tone in your reply. My friend, the expression reality is stranger than fiction will take on a new light when you actually conduct an investigation into whether the insights in the post, irrespective of tone are accurate, exactly 1 year after the post was written.
You’re right, there are women of great standing and quality who connect with fresh off the boat African men on the basis of their more intangible qualities, but these tend to be exceptions as opposed to the rule as far as my eyes can see.
December 17th, 2008 at 1:38 am
Man Thanx alots for this articles may God bless u coz what u ar saying is what i always see in this wetern life. i just give 200% for u reality and the way u still show things. Any where ar u from? is da kaguta’s science? think if u were in USA should be honorified by Joo Obama? how can put this in the world and try to advise our people to thinhk about future or other multiculture love? why not chenese, japan, or others? its sometime shame to be with da big mum for 50$ or school fees coz most of these men have a mental probleme after 5years of maried ! why? they ar not happy , and have to renonce for project in life! Well iam African , first of all iam not racist but have never dream to get a fat, grand mother, or drugs ladies coz they ar from westcountry i dream also to be proud of my wife i mean a beauty, with my taste no matter she’s color, weight, life or financial situation. when whyte men have to chose wifes why notr me? ar we still in 1885? anyway if oits by love i can advise any person to love and share his or her life with any kind of person but not coz of profit or weekness .
December 17th, 2008 at 9:29 am
@John Ruta: Thanks for the kind words and I don’t think you’ll ever find me disagree with someone who agrees with me and especially with someone who agrees that we as African immigrants should definitely step our game up and keep growing as people…
January 3rd, 2009 at 4:58 am
Man Mwangi,
You have hit it on the nail this time around. Saying that because I have noticed the exact same thing too. Lakini, lets analyze why this is so. Why is it that the western world likes to attract Africans to live there yet they have no jobs for them. Why so?
As you may know now, the west runs on a mechanized system. It is highly automated also and uses natural resources from other countries to run this system. This system is basically operated by the women in their societies due to the rise of feminism and other such taka taka. The men are basically enslaved and work to maintain the system. Thats white men for you.
So, why can African men only get the fat chicks and not the “hot” ones for marriage or even dating? Thats because you have to understand the real purpose why they have brought you to that country, even if you do not have enough money to pay for tuition.
As I said before, these people have a mechanized system which they depend on. It takes in raw materials from third world country and basically chews them up. A very highly inefficient system if you ask me. Whoever designed it had no idea what they were doing. But you see, all “humans” have a desire to gain a sense of self-worth, self-esteem and self-confidence. They do this by actually working with their hands to produce something of value. Something physical that is and that lasts for many generations hence the concept of generational wealth. Compare this to the job system in place which is about being a slave and being in debt. Many people retire without having paid all their debt or even saved any money. Ever wondered why there are so many elderly people in the western world living in poverty? Basically, the governments of these countries borrow money from the American financiers and their populations, read white men, have to work jobs where they are stressed out to pay back this money.
This is the first reason why women choose to marry white men only. White men are easily made to be servile by playing on their guilt with respect to white history. They unlike you, are not unpredictable. They follow instructions easily based on a fear they have that people of colour, especially black men hate white men. Do realize that this is true because minorities have been brainwashed to believe that white men are the cause of all their problems. In reality, the real sheitani here is the white woman. She is presented as being an angel by the media but in reality is the most vilest of all the creatures on earth. White men are on a power trip because of their enslaved status and feeling powerless. Know your enemy. White men therefore believe that if they stop working the system, and it collapses, they are dead meat. Its an illusion. Men are never really vengeful, women are. Men are only vengeful as long as the person they hate is still in power. A good example is to think of all those African dictators who after having lost power are never harmed by the male population. Women on the other hand can be said to be psychotic creatures when it comes to issues of vengeance. A woman will take her hatred to the grave and teach her kids to hate what she hates.
Having said that, you can see why you are not marriageable material. An African man would never work the system like white men do. If things become crazy, they just pack up and return to Africa. In short, you are unreliable and a system that depends on you will soon ‘thowka’. So, nobody will ever marry you because you are viewed as undependable.
Lakini, I appear to have digressed again. As I was saying, people have a need for self-worth, self-esteem and self-confidence that comes from working hard and producing something of value. If you simply sit around while others work, you start to feel really shitty. Like you are invaluable and basically a useless creature. So, what to do? How about bringing in thousands of African immigrants and letting them live in primitive and shitty conditions in your country. That way, you can automatically gain a sense of self-confidence (the Africans are powerless), a sense of self-esteem (they live in poverty) and a sense of self-worth (they are primitive Africans from deepest darkest Africa. You maybe a demonic creature, but you are still not an African).
So, now you see whats up. Africans are basically used to make these people feel better about themselves by saying that, although i am a lazy piece of shit that does nothing but live on credit and exploit others to survive, I am still better than a primitive African from deepest darkest Africa. I may be a bad person they say, but atleast I am not God forsaken. In short, they pimp your image to make themselves feel better. Thats why the media is filled with images of starving and struggling Africans.
Do realize that this includes black women too, who feel even shittier than everybody else. They desire desperately to get a white man to support them. If that fails, then the African man is their back up. Realize that most i.e. 99% of all women marry men they don’t love. They marry a slave and have somebody on the side for sex. Thats usually a black guy who is a stud.
Therefore, realize that the system is messed up. Meaning this, the system is run and organized by women and if you want to know how messed up the system is, think of your average Aussie woman or just any woman in Oz. They tell you that the system is fair, uncorrupt, efficient etc. Lakini, anyone who has ever known a western woman knows that they are liars, corrupt, gossipers and just plain down filthy ho’s. Thats the system in the western world. Their democracy is an ideal one only on TV.
So, you can see your purpose in that country. They basically pimp the African image to make themselves feel better. Thats why they hate to see a rich African. They wonder where you got the money since you are not supposed to be rich. You should be living in a mud hut. They wonder if you are the child of a corrupt politician. They also hate to see good looking Africans according to how they define good looking. They start claiming that you are mixed with white blood. Finally, they hate to see a cocky and confident African. Especially one that is happy. Don’t believe me? Simply walk down the streets of any city in Oz with a big smile and see how people react with anger.
So, this is very much a psychological war. You have to know how to play it. Problem with many Africans is that they spend their time in the west thinking about how whites view them and trying to accommodate themselves to fit in accordance with how they believe white people want them to behave. In reality, they should be studying the white man and especially his history. Get to know who the white man really is. Realize that there are many types of whites. This is something people never think about. They have been lied to, to believe that all whites are the same and that whites no longer view themselves via ethnic and tribal labels. Very wrong. Whites in general can be divided into three races i.e. Western European, Central European and Eastern European. Within these races are different ethnicities such as saxon, norman, germanic, german, brit, briton, uralic etc. Do not for one minute believe that the white is one and united. They are very divided and do not want you to know. The weakness of the white man is that he hates other whites even more than he hates you. For instance, in France, the worst thing you can do is be British. They hate British people there more than they hate any other ethnicity. In the UK, the worst thing you can be is Irish. They hate the Irish even more than the blacks. In Sweden, they hate the germanics. In Finland, they hate the Russians. Realize this has been the cause of gazillion of wars in recent European history. Including the two major world wars. This is not true of the white woman who hates you more than she hates any white. Thats why white people appear to be united. The white women rule and concentrate on hating minorities. Realize though that not all white people are evil. Some are very civillized and very intelligent. Others are as dumb as hay. The whites you find in Oz are mainly known as the Britons. In general, they are nyangaus and not the most intelligent of the whites. Meaning, you are more intelligent than they are. Remember, those people are descendants of prison convicts i.e. murders, rapists etc kicked out of Europe. Don’t expect them to be very civillized. Its in their genes to be nyangaus. In America, a country people believe is very racist, there are two whites. The native white that has been there from the 1700’s and another white that is a recent immigrant who came in after WWII. It is the latter whites, mostly from Eastern and Central Europe who are very racist. Know your whites. The former i.e. the natives, are nationalists. They believe that America should be about American ideals and only American ideals. It is they who put Obama into power.
So, study the white man and learn his ways.
Yet again, back to the storo.
This is a psychological war you are fighting and therefore, you have to find a way to make sure that people do not see you as being pitiful. Meaning, you have to find a sense of self-worth, self-confidence and self-esteem. How does one do this. Basically by changing their identity.
Self-worth: You have to make sure that they feel inferior to you. How? By identifying with something more powerful than they are. In your case, this means identifying with America. Let that be your identity while there. One way is via language. Speak American english. There are books that can show you how. Yet again, realize that Kenyan english, or should I say Kikuyu English, is very similar to American english and all you have to do is make some changes here and there. Identify also with American symbols e.g. walk down the streets with a white t-shirt with the American flag printed on it. Simple things like that. Do this because you will notice that many whites in Oz will start behaving in an obnoxious manner. Having lost their symbol of western power i.e. America, they will take it out on any immigrant by trying to bully you. Speak american, dress american.
Self-esteem: This is all about whether you are a good person. You find that good people have a sense of style with them. Real style. Not ati about putting on the latest fashion. This means changing your personality and becoming a ’smoothe’ person. For you, I would suggest getting acquainted with swahili culture. You know how Swahilis have a good sense of style from the way they talk smoothly and even walk so. Basically, its becoming stylistic like a jazz musician. A smooth operator. So, listen to some Jazz to get style. Wachana with the hip hop style. Its for the ignorants and thats how they want you to behave. They never want you to waken up. On the other hand, people with the Jazz style are seen as being sophisticated, smooth and intelligent. Even if they are not. The power of perception. Meaning, if you ‘act’ as though you are intelligent but know nothing, those people will treat you as being intelligent. This is womans greatest weakness. She cannot perceive whether someone is putting on an act or not easily unlike men. People who are good at putting on acts are known as players. Even if you are kamatwad, keep on acting. If you do, they believe they are mistaken and bad people. they start feeling guilty. Therefore change your dressing style. No more hip hop gear. Try this also at a job interview. You will also notice that many whites in Oz will start acting in an irritating manner. They will try to mess up your style by irritating you with their behaviour. Act smooth like a swahili/jazzman would. Keyword here is ‘act’. They cannot tell when you are putting on an act or not.
Self-confidence: This basically means walking around confidently. Be like a makanga. Meaning be cheerful. Ever noticed that although many Makangas may be stressed at jobo or occassionally in life, they are always cheerful and always telling jokes. You will notice that many whites in Oz will attempt to annoy you by doing annoying things basically to make you angry. Remain cheerful and even crack a joke at their expense.
Someone may probably think that its better to tow the line and behave as they do ama they will deport me etc. It won’t happen. Ever wondered why there appears to be a discrepancy in immigration in the West. Very many people speaking against it yet they still let more people in? One realizes that the people against immigration are white men. Thats because they are the ones working the system while supporting everybody else. Including illegal immigrants. It is they who hate immigrants to the core, especially those they view as being lazy. Yet again, there are still many immigrants. Thats because the system is run by the women and it is they who let in these immigrants in large numbers. Realize that they do this for two reasons and each reason is based on the type of immigrant you find in the west. For “black people”, there are two types of them,
1. The African
2. The black
What is the difference you ask? The African is the one with negroid features like you. The black is the one with caucosoid features like some kalenjins. The African has been brought in to let these people gain a sense of self-worth, self-confidence and self-esteem. White men gain self-worth from the African by reasoning that I may be a slave, but i am not a primitive.
The black has been brought in mainly for violence issues. White women use the black to keep the white man in check. If white men misbehave, they either call the cops, or the black. They also use the black for sexual purposes. So, when people say that not all “black” men are dating vimamas, they are speaking of the black.
As I said above, change your identity. This is true even when it comes to dealing with other Kenyans. Identify either as a Kikuyu or a Swahili. Especially to those nilotic Kalenjins who feel because they are more accepted in that society than you are, they are superior. Remind them that they may have some power there, but you have the power where it really matters. Na hiyo, hatupotezi tena.
Make the above changes. Thats a fear many African men have. That they will be deported if they start acting like an “uppity nigger”. Key here is to act smooth and stylistic and not like an uppity nigger. In fact, you may realize that many whites may start viewing the hip hop identity as being uppity. Another reason to change it. What they will do instead is try to break you down. In short, you are more likely to be deported if you behave like a servile primitive African than if you don’t. If you do, it means they have broken your spirit and will now seek to deport you. If you don’t they will spend the rest of their lives attempting to do so. Don’t ever let them break you. Even if you have nothing, walk down the streets with style and a smile. Remember, kuna mungu hii dunia, and he only helps those who help themselves. Its all about the ‘audacity of hope’.
Having said all that, realize that things have changed on the dating scene. More white women will now approach African men due to Obama. Watch for that, and then lenga them like a bad pineapple. Unasugua alafu unatupa mbali sana. Don’t ever marry any of those msungu women in Oz. They are the most useless creatures ever.
January 4th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
This little commentary is really sweet, and very well thought out, but you left one thing out. What about love? It is a universal principle that opposites attract, and occasionally fall in love and make happy families. It is up to the individuals and to their values and upbringing.
I’ve known some beautiful interracial couples. Look at Heidi Klum and Seal. It may start out with the lust and the fantasy, but with two good souls, it can end up in love and devotion.
I’m a die-hard romantic.
January 5th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
@Sambusa Boy: I am definitely waiting to see the post Obama effect on the dating scene.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
hi there
well…i’m actually one of the msungu women from Oz (although currently living in London) referred to by Sambusa Boy & sorry but i find these comments somewhat insulting & not very helpful in moving things forward. i am in a committed, loving relationship with a Kenyan man & also have many african friends who i made when i was a teacher in australia.
while i don’t disagree that racism blatantly exists in Oz (& which I mentioned in a previous post) - & not just towards African migrants - i have always believed that genuine, loving cross-cultural relationships can & do work.
surely, in this world of conflict we need to start to find ways that people can connect meaningfully whether through friendships, relationships etc across the divide of culture, colour, age, gender…whatever.
call me a blind optimist if you will but i cannot give up the hope that this is possible in our lives…otherwise what’s the point of it all?
jo
January 8th, 2009 at 10:10 am
They say the first step to overcoming a problem is acknowledging it. and i am glad that Mwangi and most, if not all the african men on this blog have acknowledged that there is problem in the interracial dating scene as Mwangi has outlined above (although i find Sambusa somewhat extreme in some of his views). having lived in melbourne for 3 years, i noted that this problem exists only when we fresh-of-the-boat Africans date white women, and not women of other races…these black men/white women relationships i believe are a reflection of how we african men see ourselves..as far as the human deep soul level is concerned, this whole thing of opposites attracting is crap..like attracts like..you attract someone to you who has more or less the same level of self confidence/self esteem/self worth, or inversely toxic shame as you do, so if we black men are dating large numbers of white women with self esteem issues who can’t get a man within their own race (and from what me and Mwangi have observed, these white women make up most of the white women that we Africans are dating), that my friends, is a sad state of affairs bcos it shows that us ‘brother’s need to work on our self image and stop ‘fronting’ and acting all arrogant sometimes to cover up our deep feelings of inadequacy…Mwangi, as you’ve noted i’ve also seen some of my fellow africans behave all arrogantly as if the world cannot touch them in my time in Oz..
..but of course most African men date women similar to the 3 pictured above out of mutual attraction and love with no strings attached…NOT!! to giv an example, i personally knew 4 chaps In Melbourne, 2 Southern African and 2 West African who were dating white Australian women. all these women looked just like the 3 ‘beach whales’ photographed above. the guy from Botswana brought his new ’squeeze’ to the club one time, when a couple of fellas, including myself couldn’t hide our surprise (bcos this fella told us prior to that he could get any women he wanted) this guy told us, “i haven’t had some action in a while..what is a brother to do?” he made it very clear how desperate he was to get laid!.and it showed in his behaviour. women can smell a desperate man from far, and the lady we were with exclaimed, “this dude looks like he could sleep with a woolly mammoth if the only addition made to it were sexy eye-lashes” lol! the 2nd guy from Zimbabwe is one of those brothers who is dumbed down by the whole plastic rap culture…everything from the way he walks, dresses and talks to his name. he calls himself pimp-C (after the rapper). anyway, he once walked into a fast food joint with chain hangin low, baseball cap tilted to the side and talkin all that ghetto slang about being on this ‘pimp-tip’; then guess what walked in behind him… some rolly polly freckled michelin man lookin broad with saggy breats resting on her gut, and rockin’ these booty shorts with a wide, pancake buttocks & hair looking all frumpy and a beer belly to boot…….*shudders in disgust* How on earth is that pimpin?! lol. this guy dated this girl for a while and when questioned about it he always used to say (in typical pimp lingo) “fat bitches need love too.” now since when did it become the responsibilty of the african male to make sure all women get the loving they need?! now these 2 southern African chaps had loads of arrogance and were attention seekers, but the proof is always in the pudding, and when i saw what that pudding really was (fat, ugly white women) i realised these brothers use arrogance to cover up deep seated insecurities and feelings of inadequacy/not good enough..now as for the West African chaps (whom i met a ugandan colleague bbq), the 1st one was married to a unattractive and fat white girl who happened to come from a pretty rich family, so she showered him with the basic necessities and luxuries he didn’t have back home. she kept him like a dog on a leash though and didn’t allow even friends to visit, and she wasn’t a nice person either..hardly ever smiled. he was unhappy and even lost lots of weight while she gained but he married her for the Australian permanent residency and he struck through the ordeal and after 2 yrs of marriage, he got it and left her sooner than you could say……anyway, he remarried an educated women of Italian heritage with above average intelligence and looks but who was also from a rich family. this new woman was his mistress during his time with his old wife, and she’s the only thing that kept him sane during those trying times when he wanted to leave his wife but couldn’t out of desperation, so you can imagine how much he cherishes her. the other West African dude, a Nigerian, told me matter of factly that he’s only married to his current wife because he wants that Australian permanent residency (he has wife and kids at home you see), and he told me that lots of other Nigerians all over the world were doing the same thing..going after fat, ugly white women to use them for their permanent Visas to their host country cue paper marriages. he told me that the reason they choose fat, ugly white women and not even the average looking ones is because these women won’t leave you even if you don’t treat them right all the time because white men don’t want them, and they’ll even provide food, accommodation etc while with you. i can only imagine the heartbreak these women go through once these men up and leave after lying to them, and i feel sorry for them, but these examples underlie the fact that when you see a fresh-of-the-boat african man walking down the street and an unattractive, obese white woman next to him, then the reasons for this union are hardly ever bcos of mutual love & attraction with no strings attached..as John Ruta so aptly put it “anyway if oits (sic) by love i can advise any person to love and share his or her life with any kind of person but not coz of profit or weekness (sic)” - these black/men white women relationships are usually made from a position of weakness and desperation and/or mutual lack of self worth..there’s usually a primary need and/or secondary benefit being fulfilled here, and this reflects that state of affairs that africa as a continent is in today. i’ll explain in my next post.
the 4 guys i’ve written about above were not with the type of white women they had envisioned in their minds dating (i know this bcos i got to know all of them well enough to know their tastes in women). aleast the West African chaps were honest about dating scraps whilst the 2 southern African chaps merely surrendered and rendered themselves unable to get the type of white women they envisioned in their minds, so they settled for less (i know how ironic that sounds) this is the unfortunate stance on African male/ white female relationships today, and before anyone responds to this, i want y’all to know that Mwangi and I are referring to black men/white women relationships in AUSTRALIA…i have’t observed enough of the U.K and U.S.A interracial dating scene to make a comment, but as for my fresh-of-the-boat African brotehrs in Australia. most of them are definitely settling for scraps, and that’s an unfortunate reflection of their self worth.
January 8th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
@all: After reading nkosi’s comment - thanks for writing one based on experience and observation and not reflection or abstract thinking my friend, much appreciated - let me remind folks that the best type of comments will always be comments based on experience or real word observations and not the abstract.
If you read nkosi’s comment and my post one thing that becomes quite clear is prior to encountering the reality here abroad, a lot of Africans probably genuinely think they can score themselves a Jessica Alba or Jennifer Hawkins lookalike when down here; but to this day, I must say I’ve only seen one or two brothers-in pictures sadly, not real life-associate with any women even remotely beautiful as per Western standards.
And before someone asks me why am I using Western standards instead of African standards, its quite simple: the type of woman you are capable of attracting here is a clear reflection of your perceived value in the society.
If you can attract Ms. Hawkins lookalikes you clearly have a great deal of social value.
If all you can attract is someone who looks like a beached whale who has been rejected by her own countrymen; then fill in the blanks however painful they might be.
If we want our dignity and to sit on the table abroad as equals step 1 is accepting where we are, step 2 is deciding on where we wanna be ( sadly this hasn’t happened much in the comments thread) and step 3 is working to get there.
Have an awesome 2009 and thanks for making this post a classic y’all.
January 18th, 2009 at 11:52 pm
I was chased by a man from Cameroon, who espoused these very thoughts you have written here. I loved his intellectualising.. but the red flags starting to surface when he asked to borrow money, sick mum, etc.. he is in Madagascar now, visiting his child..and all other women his flat mate tells me.. His falt mate is 20 years older, she was his girlfriend, and she stupidly persists in trying o get him to marry her, even though he was dating me.. this is all very pathetic.. i even talked to him about african men who take advantage of western women.. so wow.. i believe your article is true of some african men.. such a shame.. and this is all happening right now for me.. its crazy.. and i am not any of your 5 points above..
January 19th, 2009 at 12:00 am
@slim: I find it quite interesting that that reaction- of white women telling me that they don’t fall into any of the categories- is much more consistent than African men stopping by to tell me the same.
Apologies about your situation, I briefly touched on this in this article ( http://www.thedisplacedafrican.com/1019/what-are-marriages-for-papers-aka-paper-marriages/ ) and hopefully other comments from women in your situation above will help: sadly a number of African men can be quite callous in the pursuit of what they want from women.
January 19th, 2009 at 12:28 am
yes, i have gussed as much .. the woman is 50 plus.. and she still believes he loves her.. its crazy.. so what does one do? i so want to get in touch with him and truly.. give itto him.. it annoys me that pathetic men exist.. it is so wrong, that he pokes himself into people’s lives as he has..
i work with the UN. i have a doctorate .,i downplayed my assets, my education, and much about me to him.. as the red flags were waving bolding…, i have no shortage of beautiful people in my life. i sure as hell have no idea why i let him into my life… oh…another descriptor … he never has money. as he is always sending to pay for his mother;s medication.. im just so glad, i didnt pay his way etc..
i find it pathetic he is milking australia’s women and economy for his liaisons in madagascar…
January 19th, 2009 at 1:24 am
@slim: One very beautiful thing about us though, that I have always deeply admired, is how we support our people back home. The fact that he’s supporting his mum and an entire family at home, that’s pretty typical too.
January 19th, 2009 at 4:11 am
the ethics are wrong,, i dont call hat beuiful.. i call it theft, i call it crime.. when he takes fom others, steals literally, lies,,, it is not beautiful..he is supporting a wife, a girlfriend and perhaps the mother as such does not exist… i would be happy to arrange hsi loss of residency..
January 20th, 2009 at 10:51 am
@Mwangi, i also find it interesting that so many white women are denying belonging to any of the above categories. slim, beautiful and intelligent’s stories outline the main foundation that these relationships are based on…NEED, DESPERATION & WEAKNESS..remember that bible verse about building a house on sand..it’s a faulty foundation. on one hand you have an F-O-B African male who needs money to survive, food, accommodation, a residence permit/Visa (cos nowhere in hell is he going back to the desperate situation in his home country) and then you have the white female, usually obese and ugly who’s in desperate need of love, acknowledgement, attention, sex (and to test the theory of the black d***), to be made to feel like a goddess, etc. one’s need is mainly material while the other’s need is mainly emotional/psychological..they both see each other as easy targets, because black men believe any fat, ugly white woman with low self esteem will perform every trick under the sun to keep him by her side..especially since most of these black men are aware that 99% of white men dont want these women, and so she’ll hold onto the man she has; not really out of love (although she’d like to believe it is), but desperation and insecurity i.e. emotional attachment. ppl need to realise that there’s a difference between emotional attachment and love
with regards to the white female, she believes that every african male is attracted to her. she has heard, somewhere, some time ago that african males love fat women, especially fat white women. she has the distinct impression that an african male will react totally differently than a white male would to a 300 pound woman. since she usually carries an conscious or most likely, an unconscious belief in being ‘better than’ simply cos she’s white, it doesn’t matter if she looks like a hyaena or weighs as much as a baby elephant..she still sees herself as attactive to even the most handsome and tallest of african men..I KNOW THIS!! obese, unattractive white women have approached me with the confidence and cockiness you’d expect only from the likes of Beyonce and Jessica Alba.This has happened to me on numerous occassions in melbourne..even when i was with my girlfriend…this belief is further strenghthened by the fact that indeed, a lot of african men are seen in the public eye with fat, ugly white women, so the evidence strengthens the belief even further and this becomes a self re-inforcing cycle..what then happens is that fat, ugly white women from all over the planet transmit this belief a la the ‘100th monkey syndrome’ (read about this phenomenon if you don’t know what i’m talking about) and behave according to type.
..as for the F-O-B african male, he believes that every white female outside of Africa is wants him…and wants him bad. he has heard somewhere, some time ago, that white women want to sleep with black men bcos they supposedly have big d****s. this whole ‘mandingo fantasy’ phenomenon becomes a boost to his ego, bcos he now believes he can get every beautiful white women he can get his hands on..however, there is this nagging feeling in the back of his mind that these women only want to use him for sex i.e. they don’t like him for him, but only bcos he is black and has a long ding-dong..he is like an object to them. this isn’t too much of a problem bcos many men have fantasies of being sexual objects to the likes of Pamela Anderson, Fergie, Anastacia, Jessica Alba, jessica Biel, etc. it’s only when he comes to Australia that reality dawns on him. he discovers that indeed there are women that want to get into bed with him, and that there are women who love him merely bcos he’s black..he’s some kind of fad or new toy for them…but these women are by and large, very fat and ugly (okay, i’ll admit a few are slim, but they still have a dog face). this comes as a huge disappointment for the man, but he still settles for less bcos another belief this man had prior to his experiences with white women is that white Western women will do anything for their black man…but he discovers that in a insiduous sort of way, this is more like a trap..i’ve heard it being called the ‘fat white girl trap.’ these white females know deep down inside their new catch will not stay with them based on her personality or looks, or even how good she is in bed, so she devises other means to hold onto him for dear life..in comes money, clothing, free food accommodation, etc. the man settles into a comfort zone, and he figures that maybe he could milk the poor woman for what it’s worth because as far as he is concerned, they are both USING EACH OTHER!!! the white female eventually manages to delude herself (which is something that is quite common with women in general..but that is a topic for another day) that he loves her and therefore they love each other..if she’s honest with herself, she will remember that her initial attraction to him was based on Need, desperation and weakness (& a passing fad) more than anything else..love especially..and in no time the relationship crumbles once one of them gets what they want and is satisfied (usually the male) and “another one bites the dust.” as numerous as these relationships are, they hardly ever last, and those that do tend to be unhappy unions simply because no african male would stay too long with the type of women i’ve decribed based on his love and respect for her alone..PLEEEEASE!!! i would like to believe that most african men have pretty high or at least decent standards in choosing their mates, even though what i’ve observed with regards to white women/black men relationships leads me to believe the contrary.
like i said before, this state of affairs is NOT rampant when african males choose to date interacially, but to non-white women. I will give the example of my 2 african chaps i knew who were each dating beautiful (one of them stunningly so) Sri Lankan women whilst i was in Australia. i never quite understood why we african males will drastically lower our standards when dating white women as opposed to all other women..but now i’ve realised that the white female/black male relationship dynamic is just as drastically different to a relationship consisting of a black men with any other type of woman
i just feel it’s nice to talk about these things, bcos these relationships tend to reflect badly on us african men, and sometimes the best way to change something is to first recognise the problem and it’s root cause by talking about it.
January 20th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
@nkosi: How we manage to get gorgeous women from the sub-continent is probably something worthy of studying. I, coming from a place where the divide between Indians and Africans was so large have been so pleasantly surprised by the relationships we have with Indian and especially Sri Lankan people here in Australia.
January 21st, 2009 at 7:55 am
tru dat my brother tru dat. i think the only african country i’ve been to where the indian/black relations are all good is South Africa. indians and black people by and large get along there..in that i mean, they undersatnd each other quite well. infact, on 2 occasions i have been invited to indian get-togethers where i promise i was the only black guy there..and i never felt out of place, which i think would be impossible in any other african country. of course marrying an indian woman if you are black in South Africa is pretty difficult (although easier than in other african countries i’ve visited) because the indian community tends to be quite conservative, but nevertheless friendly…one of the indian chaps i met there in south africa told me that south african indians don’t really click or hang out with indians from the rest of the continent cos their mentality is a bit too different to theirs. u’d understand this point if you spent enough time around them..they are just different, but i don’t mean this in a bad way. as for the sri lankan community in Australia, i was close to these 2 sri lankan chaps and to be honest i felt just as comfortable around them as i was around my closest african friends. perhaps this is bcos they saw themselves in me..they considered themselves black (they really did), so as far as they were concerned i was their ‘brother.’ i still don’t know why i never made a pass at any of their women bcos on several occassions opportunities did arise. on the 2 occassions i did act, i messed up, & i now regret it..i really do. i was introduced to some sri lankan women who were quite easily wife material!! everything you’d ever want in a woman, they had..everything! but for some reason i’ll never understand, i grew cold feet on all those occassions. i really messed up big time there! perhaps i had feelings of not deserving since it was too good to be true, and i’ll admit i felt somewhat intimidated. both these are self worth issues (i’ll write more about africans, the african state of affairs and self worth in my next post)…to be honest, i don’t know if i’d be able to handle a woman as hot as Jessica Alba if they gave her to me on a silver plate. a man has to have a certain level of self confidence and a bit of cockiness (which is a component of self confidence) to handle such beauties right?! i think my self confidence would let me down in such an instance bcos it did when i was hooked up with this sri lankan girl that i rate as easily one of the top 10 most beautiful and sexy women i’ve ever laid my eyes on. the fact that she was so open minded, down to earth and knowledgeable and showed keen interest in me and what i had to say, gave me even colder feet, and so i screwed up. i have done some soul searching and worked on my self confidence issues ever since (which helped me obtain my mixed islander girlfriend), cos they were exposed in those crucial moments but i will never, ever, ever stoop as low as the level of some of our african men who chose to go the white female route, no matter how long i’ve been single.
one factor i think may be overlooked is that generally, white women tend to come from liberal backgrounds, while other non-white women tend to come from communities which are to different degrees, conservative..this means the potential problems and obstacles you may encounter dating an arab women for instance will not occur if you date a white Aussie woman e.g. you don’t worry about her father & brothers coming with a shotgun to shoot you, or whether she is allowed to have sex before marriage and how often, or whether you have to convert to be more in line with her religious beliefs, or whether you have to stop drinking and smoking because that is seen as an abomination in her community, etc. you start worrying about how you r behaviours may unintentionally offend your partner or visa versa. i knew a guy who had only dated black and white women prior to his relationship with this persian girl, and there was a slight problem in their relationship that nevertheless irked him, especially since he was encountering it for the first time…she refused to give him blowjobs..it was totally against her culture and she found it disgusting, but oral sex is something he took for granted prior to this. there are potential cultural clashes you may encounter that i think puts-off african men somewhat about dating non-white women, so they just go for the liberal free spirited women where pretty much everything and anything goes hence lessening any potential tension in the relationship. also when you date non-white women, you tend to be in it for the long haul..that’s what the girl usually expects of you, whereas sometimes white women just want a short term fling. some men consider long term commitment to a like a prison sentence
January 21st, 2009 at 8:01 am
@nkosi: You know I messed up with a Sri Lankan 10 once too, maybe we are talking about the same girl. To be honest I would actually be quite curious to see how many of us would handle dating a Jessica Alba or that Sri Lankan 10 - though straight up beauty aside, some of them are just way too comfortable and cool to hang out with.
The funny thing about an African, its kind of an advantage of ours, is regardless of our lot in life our default mode is arrogance and our psychology will bend and shape to fit that whether through delusion, deletion etc etc
January 21st, 2009 at 8:23 am
well to be honest, i feel so depressed reading all of this, i feel like throwing myself under the nearest bus!
when i first came to this site i was hoping to find a way of talking about being a white woman (yes, i’m australian…no i’m not stupid or a beached whale) who is in a relationship with an african man. but all i hear is how FOB (although i really don’t like that term!) african men are dating supposedly horrendous white aussie women for visas, money & an easy ride…how depressing!
but although this may be the case in some instances, i feel this forum is in danger of massive stereotyping & thereby losing out on a fantastic opportunity to have a REAL discussion about intercultural relationships.
i taught adult african men for many years when i lived in Oz - none of them needed to have a relationship with a white woman for a visa as they all had PR visas. all of them worked part-time while they studied & most were planning to go on to uni to get better quals & a better life. they all had good self esteem & i never saw any of them in the dysfunctional relationships described here. in contrast i saw many happy & loving parternships between white aust. women & african men some of which led to marriage & having a children together.
so, please before i abandon this forum forever…can’t we hear about some of the positive & successful relationships that DO work? intercultural relationships between people of any background have their difficulties but they can also be very rich, rewarding & loving.
thanks!
joanne
January 21st, 2009 at 8:28 am
@Joanne: Some women have come forth with some great stories in the past 110+ comments. Some men have told of great relationships in Scandinavian countries. However by and large it appears African men either agree with me, ignore this article or dismiss it.
To be clear, I think this article clearly expresses where many FOB Africans are. What I think we’ve had nearly enough of is where we wanna bes, people who are where we would wanna be and how we’d get there.
If this article depresses you, think about what it must be like for a FOB African to read this and live it.
Anyway I’m rambling: thanks for stopping by and thanks for the comment.
January 21st, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Joanne
Not all men of African origin fit the negative profile, however, it is those negative men who do fit this profile, who ride on the good functional african men in our society. In the case of many men from third world countires or men who are merely surviving a western culture after rising in whatever way from poverty, it is they who truly can be given academy awards. They take on the TV persona of a man who pretends he works or studies or lives a fuctional life, when in fact, as one african man said to me, the only way many of his peers survive is by having sex, it’s the cheapest pasttime. And wow, if a woman can be manipulated in turn, it makes for an even greater catch, especially in being able to support family back at home.
Your comments are valid - vaild for any community of people under attack for whatever reason, the middle easterns, muslims, jews, etc..
the fact is, why ought australian women suppress accounts of real experiences, experiences of men who have been abusing their lives, families and bank books, if the women have been that gullible - guess what, there are very subtle ways in which this negative african obtains your finiances, even when you are accomplished, sexy as, slim, beautiful, intelligent. The irony is, and i fit the opposite of the criteria above, i work in a powerful position which helps nations, empowers the weak, and if thsi african had chosen nopt to be the ass he is, he could have had it all.. if his love was authetic, instead, i be happy to report him and have him deported.. whay ruin other people’s lives and tar the goodness of good african men.
January 21st, 2009 at 9:09 pm
Hi nkosi,
Let me clarify. The black guy i dated, he pursued me for months. I say that, as I was not in any situation as you describe above. I do not have issues with dating men, commitment or the like. I am slim, beautiful and intelligent.
He lives in a city apartment. By all means, a sound address. I live in comfortable circumstances also. He shares with a much older woman, so far that was okay, given he was studying and working in Australia. He sounded quite intelligent.
I can go on..
He also held a night job, of which I attended in his supposed dinner breaks, only to see that he made an appearance and then disappeared. he earned the week’s salary for appearing for at most 30 mins out of a possible 8 hour shift! He then had an ill mother, his funds were assisting her hospital bills, i then found out his flat mate loathed him with me, and since discovered, yes, she fits the old, lonely, woman described above. She has funded him for the past 6 years, and he has been busy dating and sending money abroad.
He in fact was not studying at all during the day - he lied to appeal to social situations with people. He has never paid rent. he gets money to send abroad, he then returns home to a wife? I dont know, as I have just found out these quirky salient points.
I have held back, I have held back, especially when he insisted that in relationships, we help each other out - he asked for money. YOu know, you just dont do that qwhen you meet a girl and you are dating.
i dont knwo what to believe at present - as the old, fat lady is insisting that when he has been dating me, he has also been sleeping with her - unprotected! Yikes and shite.. these are the tidbitsi have found out this week. And of course, she sent him an email telling him - I told her everything.
What can i say, except, i have yet to hear from him.
it is not right, nkosi, you have simply made a judgement about me, as you opt to stand by a brother, you have not possible realised that thsi brother, may well be an arsehole. and if your gift is writing in an articulate way - i am not wishing to compete with you here, as i am not the writer, i am merely standing in solidarity with woman who do not fit the low self esteem,, desperation and dysfunctional descriptors of above. Some of us women, in all we do, may well just allow a person that blank canvas, and wish to journey with them. when it becomes marred with negativity, covered with many red flags, perhaps we stand back and rather than be a victim we express our pissed off concerns, we allow others to hear our account, as it validates that learning that has just taken place. i have many black friends, who support the concern, many black men who are embarrassed by dysfucntional black men in Australia. The population of africanmen in Australia is noticeably less than most other countries. and even in a city such as sydney, it becomes apparent as to who has ethics and who lacks them.
I appreciate that you have not been abused, i dare say, you are not protected, it can happen and does happen to the best of us!
.
January 23rd, 2009 at 7:25 pm
I want to start off by saying this was very well written. I’m not going to tell you that you’re small-minded. You obviously are very observant because much of what you say, unfortunately, is true in many cases. If it were not then such an observation wouldn’t strike other people so poignantly, no matter what their opinion of it or which side of the spectrum they reside on. The problem is that there are so many men fully willing to take advantage of these brands of weakness in a woman. I am a white woman and I am overweight. And I would never allow myself to date a black man strictly -because of- the manipulations you so casually mentioned practicing. Trust is a huge issue for me and I’ve never come across an African native man that struck me as particularly trustworthy. But then perhaps that’s because I’m too intelligent to actually fall for the bullshit they try to put out. If you tell me I’m stupid you’re probably going to get slapped. Tell me I’m ugly and I’ll tell you I don’t give a freck what you think about the way I look. My point being… there are plenty of insecure women out there. In fact… all women have insecurities. But beauty and weight is just one that’s easy for a man who is driven by their reproductive apparatus to manipulate to achieve the desired end result. This behavior is reprehensible, of course, as would any behavior I deployed in an attempt to play off of your own emotional weaknesses to further my own ends. Failures, weaknesses, and insecurities are a fact of life as humans. What separates the good men from the pigs are the reasoning abilities that deem it immoral in one’s eyes to knowingly and callously hurt another individual for selfish reasons. If you’re not attracted to a big girl and you can see she’s obviously crippled by her own insecurity… leave her for the shrinks and go jerk your meat in the bathroom, man. I don’t appreciate being lumped into this stereotype just because I’m a big woman anymore than you appreciate being thrown into the stereotype that states all black men are trash. Mm? Do you? Didn’t think so.
January 23rd, 2009 at 7:42 pm
@April: First of all thanks for visiting tDA. This will probably be one of the less diplomatic replies that I write but as I wind into 2009, my mindset is definitely shifting.
Since its the first thing I wrote I’ll address it first: As long as it doesn’t affect my quality of life in a significant way, I really don’t care if folks want to stereotype me as trash, because clearly I am not. I don’t say that with irrational arrogance, I’ve been around all races and clearly there is no superiority between them, as there are many areas we as African immigrants genuinely feel we are far ahead, which I won’t discuss here.
However, weight on women I believe is an entirely different arena, and in fact though they don’t exactly match up, this article and the plight of African men fresh off the boat are quite similar.
Irrespective of any intangible qualities that sadly we might bring to the table, the fact of the matter is when we go out into society for one reason or another society doesn’t want to give us its absolute best: might be a curse for some, a challenge for others or something else entirely but it feels like that correlation is probably worth exploring in depth.
( Btw, happy 1 year bday to the article, 7 days ago)
Secondly, to be honest by this point I am actually kinda miffed that all white women who come here only appear to want to defend THEMSELVES whereas there is another group of people who has been described as being close to pariah’s, namely the African men.
Maybe its because I have read the defensive position-which even if it were validated, kinds leaves us where we started, so much over the year, when this article as this blog was meant to be about advancing forward.
Perhaps its also because whereas the few African FOBs who have stopped by can clearly attest to this being true, many white women refuse to accept it occurs.
Another thing is, if you read my story as an immigrant you will realize that I wasn’t involved in much of what I have described above. If I was, I’d easily talk about it, I’ve discussed worse, and talk about my insights, so that inference is sadly wrong.
Now, another thing I have never ever been a fan of is women disrespecting men and using terms such as ” thinking with his little brain” or “Not having enough blood for the brain because it flows down south” and so on and so on.
Here’s my problem with it: women accuse us of lacking discipline. That would be fine, were it not for the fact that, understandably so, women are much more emotionally fluid, capricious and less willing to exercise control of emotions, feelings and any irrational desires.
And so, I’ll give you the response I give often when women go on this rant, don’t admonish that which you don’t have or control, unless you can look yourself in the mirror and say you have been much more disciplined with the irrational desires, emotions lot you’ve been given: in which case run seminars teaching men and women some self-discipline which is badly needed in this society.
I really do appreciate the fact that you stopped by April and honestly appreciate the kind words and thought I would genuinely express what was on my mind.
January 23rd, 2009 at 11:05 pm
@slim, beautfiul and intelligent, first of all i’d like to compliment you on your accomplishments; working for the U.N and all. my apologies if i gave you the impression i was talking about you even though i wasn’t. i was actually referring to 2 lines you wrote where you say
“His falt (sic) mate is 20 years older, she was his girlfriend, and she stupidly persists in trying o (sic) get him to marry her, even though he was dating me” & “the woman is 50 plus.. and she still believes he loves her.. its crazy.” i was pointing out that u have given an example of desperate women who are in denial and will want to keep a man who treats them badly and clearly has character flaws and no long term interest in them. the women who fit this description are mostly old white women or fat and ugly ones. you now see how fat and ugly or old and frumpy white women can be easy targets for such unscrupulous men…this as i have said in one of the posts above was confirmed to me by a Nigerian chap who was behaving just like this Cameroonian chap. the Nigerian guy told me that some African men (mostly of West African origin and Nigeria in particular) and are doing this in Western countries over the world. they target these types of women to suit their ends and gain PR’s in their host countries. i remember watching a news clip from Ireland talking about this growing problem perpetrated by nigerian men. there are unscrupulous men out there using women (i’ve stated this before), and they tend to come from developing as opposed to developed countries. a lot of them are economic or political refugees..either way, they tend to come from unstable or even violent backgrounds and more often than not it shows in their behavour after their communities desperately scramble to get to their new host country. i don’t find it surprising that Somalians, Sudanese (some of whom are very uncouth indeed) and even Lebanese have high crime statistics related to them. i have never defended african men who did these things bcos they give all us african men a bad name, but it doesn’t help your cause slim& beautful if a lot of white women are actually adding to the problem by using bait (money & promises of a better life) to lure african men for sex and whatever else have you and totally disregard the men’s cultural values, background, beliefs and behaviour. this will attract to you unscrupulous men who will use your naivety and sense of desperation to milk you out of the very bait you offered them and to break your heart. what am i talking about?….
..i am talking about sex tourism in Africa. and i’m not talking about western men coming to africa to pay for sex with young african girls (that’s old news)..i’m talking about white women (a lot of whom are old) coming to Africa; mainly Kenya and the countries along the African West Coast seeking young, virile african men to have sex with, and they pay for it. the beaches along these african countries have become hunting grounds for these women. this trend has been growing exponentially and is now so big that it’s now gaining media attention. i read about this in an african magazine and even saw it on the news. the kenyan government has frowned upon this trend in their country. open this link to the article from reuters below:
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L14342169.htm
some of these women fall in love or get emotionally attached and then they take these men back to Europe with them. i read that one Swedish lady visited Gambia and took 5 different men at different times back to Sweden with them and each time they all disappeared once they had their papers sorted out..she clearly forgot that her relationship with these men was not initially based on love, so why should they change to love just because she changed? although these men burned her 5 times she was part of the problem you see. and as long as some white women prey on these men’s poverty and insecurities to lure them, unscrupulous & desperate men will continue to show up and they will hunt and prey on white women..even unsuspecting and innocent white women like yourself slim & beautiful, because now african men will view white women as nothing more than their meal ticket (with love not being part of the equation) and those white women who are geenrally viewed by society as undesirable will more than willingly accept these men into their lives, with not so much as suspicion about these men’s flawed characters, even despite the evidence to the contrary…
..of course, not all african men i like this. i highlighted how some economic and political refugees may be, but then you have guys like me who come from comfortable (even by Western standards) backgrounds, are fluent in english english, went to good schools, and came to Australia either as immigrants and/or students..not out of desperation, but ore out of choice. such men do exist in australia and i knew a lot of them. we wouldn’t do what that Cameroonian chap did to you. it’s just that in australia there tends to be a big difference between african students/immigrants and african political/economic refugees, and you unfortunately got one of the latter ones. peace
January 23rd, 2009 at 11:22 pm
@nkosi: Aah beach boys, now there you are bringing in an entirely new phenomenon, I am willing to bet its probably a pandemic on the islands with white and African American women after movies like Stella.
Actually many FOBs from comfortable backgrounds also engage in many of these practices. The vast majority dip their toes in the pool of other cultures briefly and then go back to their own community but I wouldn’t say that economic stability is a huge deterrent to the behavior on the posts or the comments actually.
February 6th, 2009 at 6:07 am
mwangi my brother i just came across this forum and i would like to say thank you for keeping it real maan. the truth shall set u free. as a zimbabwean mid 20s male who studied in geelong at deakin university where there is a herd of us zimbos over derre let me say that i have seen my brothers date some of the ugliest white women infact women perod! that i ever seen. inspite of australia’s multiculturalisim geelong is pretty much homogenous compared to the likes of sydney so hence the point being that there are lots of uuuugly bitches out there and my fellow zimos are dating these gals. why obese ugly gals be dem ones that like tha black man in australia????!!!!??? i say australia bcos i have lived in londin and st peterbsurg in rssia for a bit my friend. believe me wen i tell u dat although russia be racist and xenophobic, you would get yourself a russian girl even your grandmother in the vilages of kenya be proud of. engflish may be only problem for some of dem but so what. london has greatest number of mixed race relations on planet and that is empirical fact my african broders in england do much better dating out of derre race than in aussie much better! but i know sum of my zim bros have standards. it just that some of dem don’t wanna leave Aussie and come bak to zimbabwe u see because zimabwe is a dead country because of Mugabe so dey marry these mingers and get aussie permanent residence permits. don’t believe me? go to any of the deakin university campuses in state of victoria and ask the many zimbos there how many of them would do anything to stay in aussie. 99% of dem wil say yes so they marry ugly women and leave them someone already wrote about dis on here very true very true but also very discouraging african broders plz hav some self respect! and stop dating women u will feel too embarassed to introduce to your mother
February 6th, 2009 at 6:17 am
@Kuda: Interesting to hear the Zim perspective. Hmm, the impression I’m starting to get is that this problem is only a significant one in Australia and America with the story in the European countries, including England, being an entirely different one.
Lol, and it’s also interesting to see how many people actually care or have an opinion on this particular issue.
February 8th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
This guy is an idiot, Australia(where he apparently studied) is full of women just wanting black meat… I’ve been there and experienced it first hand and it’s not a myth but a fact. In white america it’s a different case though. Been to Russia, Turkey, Holland, Germany and it’s all the same thing. They love us, cause white men I’m soory to say just can’t satisty. Size is everything but it depends on how you use it…
February 8th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
@jentis: Though I have absolutely no appreciation for your tone, at least your full of self confidence.
February 8th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
I am amused, i am slim, i am intelligent and somehow I dated several black men in my dating years. Why - i worked and studied in South Africa, it was inevitable, population wise to meet black men. Needless to say, moving back to Australia, the population ratio is a lot less. I have a mixed background - mediterranean.
I tend to be attracted to men who also have a mixed background, dating a black man of late was simply as a result of a common interest - dancing. No where in my recount do i mention appendage and size factor.
It is a shame though, when a black man, plays on the kindness of an Australian culture and belittles himself by guising as a playa. If they indeed are attracted to the woman - be her, slim, fat, blonde, brunette, black, pink or white - let it be an honest relationship. My African friend is stuck in an African country amidst political turmoil on his visit back - he claims to miss me etc. i do not miss him, I discovered as we dated, that he is way too African and way too immersed in lies. I felt his genuine desire to be with me, but he was sinking in his life of lies. His fat, older female friend is wishing to befriend me, crikey, and she calls him, mails him money etc..He is trying to sell his property abroad and meanwhile dealing with his ‘wife’, he is pushing for a divorce and reconnecting with his child. Why? Even I am lost with all this - a man who is too African, lacking the soul and heart to be honest, upfront about his African persona.
Again, I have not in my recount mentioned a black man’s appendage, nor size. I do wishthe myth and the urban truths sync, as at the end of the day, we are simply human…I need more than colour of skin as basis of my dating a man. The appendage and size are not obvious in first meeting,
February 9th, 2009 at 2:26 am
In response to jentis…… seems to me as though you are overcompensating for something….. could it be an extremely small penis? Must be….. I am white, been married twice - first time to a white man, second to a black man. I have dated and been intimate with men of both races….. color has nothing to do with size (in my experience). Perhaps you have been with more men than I……. or at least you are passing yourself off as the expert when you say that white men are unable to satisfy…. Tell me, what is your experience in the sizes and satisfaction of mens’ penises?
Never been to Austrailia - but I have lived in the U.S. all of my life. I experienced the civil rights movement first hand. I lived in a time when there were seperate restrooms, drinking fountains, etc. My father was the only white teacher at an all black school. I grew up with both white and black people.
I am not obese, in fact, I ride my bike a mile and run 2 miles every day. I am an IT so I carry computers around all day….. In other words, I am in pretty good shape…… If you are only able to attract fat ugly white women, that says as much about you as it does them. What you obviously have not experienced is that people (not just women) actually are attracted to other based on the content of their charecter….. you never mention that so you apparently are unable to relate - again speaking a lot about the content of yours!
February 10th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
jentis my friend why u callin me idiot ur racist tone makes u an even bigger idiot. how many white men u slept with to determine the size of their penis? dont be stupid. r u sayin white men cant get women of other races? i saw lots of white men dating interrcially to asian women in australia and those women luk happy to me. infact the white men who date these asian women at least keep der standards good unlike u brothers who come to australia and run after hippos, whales rhinos. ive seen my zimbabwe guys do this. yes some of dem do good, but rare compared to wat this blog talks about. i agree wit u jentis though about Russia, Turkey, Holland and Germany, and yes i studied at deakin in geelong 4 2 and 1/2 years and then Monash in clayton 4 1/2 year. black man/white woman dating in australia rubbish compared to europe as europe white women more liberal and open minded about interracial dating than white women anywhere else, and da hottest white women on earth live in Europe too moreover eastern europe, scandinavia and russia. livin in london was nice cos travellin all over europe is eazy from derre. i hear american not too good too. we all know america got the fattest woman on earth so me thinks most black men in america are wit fat white women by default. @amused, wat is too african? are u talking about dese no self respect, corrput men who use and abuse women. ppl like me mwangi not like dat but i know dey exist, and dey go for dese very obese ugly and insecure white women so the prey on de insecurity and these women stick to these men. watch how they react when african man talks to black woman. since u dated this man who is too african, are u perhaps the ‘typical’ white woman dey go for moreover since u are australian? if you know what i mean…..btw jentis, turkey women not white
February 10th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
..i forgot to say that meditteranean women are hot too
February 21st, 2009 at 2:13 am
I am offended. My husband is African, he is grom Ghana, and he didn’t want to go home with me because of what was in my fridge. He wanted me for years and was very persistant to get me, and it had nothing to do with my weight or my self esteem. He just really liked me and was attracted too me. I don’t think it is fair of you to assume that white women only want black men for drugs or because of the stereotypical mandigo. All of your comments are racists and stereotypical. You are very wrong for your post.
February 22nd, 2009 at 2:41 am
@Patty: I in turn am actually offended. As I have said above, a year after reading comment after comment what I don’t appreciate is the fact that you appear not to be responding to the article or the intention behind it but rather chose to accept it as a reflection of you and combat that. Let me tell you what I mean:
1) I am speaking of a general tendency i.e. there are exceptions to the rule.
2) I wrote it with the aim of eliminating this condition; instead you are talking to me as though you like it.
Thirdly, you have brought up something that makes me uncomfortable about the West in general i.e. the overuse-to-the-point-of-meaningless use of the word “racist/racism”.
Racism according to a dictionary is “the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races”. What about this article suggests that?
I said that when fresh off the boat African immigrants, whose experience is different from Africans born and raised in a Western country, come to Australia these are their experiences. I did not make a blanket statement about the race. Its much more a cultural phenomenon and if you read the comments you’d know that is the case.
Please be very careful when using that word.
By the way…… here’s to your happy, healthy, marriage
Thanks for stopping by tDA and have an awesome 2009
February 22nd, 2009 at 8:28 am
Patty, Patty, do read the comments and the blog detail first!
Hi all, my update, it is amazing how the fresh off the boat African is seduced by the hope of gaining all he can to take it home and support a tribe, or actually, as I found out, to show off to his brithers and sisters that he made it big here! so many lies, so sad really. it is almost the separation-anxiety, transition thing happening. The man i dated, who chased me for months, and btw Patty, i am slim, etc.., is currently stuck in Madagascar. But that is not all.. i mentioned earlier, his fat white older female whom he didnt want me to get to knwo ..as I thought she was simply a flat mate, is keen to knwo me and seems to be accepting me. She is doused with the acceptance torch, suggesting ‘her’ west african man is simply being who is his when he is home..she sends him money when he asks for it.. i could go on and on… anyway, my interest is simply to get my $1500 back, not to marry this guy as he wants, btw, he still isn’t divorced, recall i didn’t know he was married.. it goes on and on..patty, guess what.. the blog describes well some fresh off the boat africans… i got to laugh though, they are not all blessed with sizeable appendages, some are great though in the bedroom, as mine told me, in poverty, sex is the pasttime you learn to excel at, and with mine, the olympic sport he told me he represented when in Australia is an absolute lie, why did he even think me would believe it.. why do the lie about everything…amazing stuff really, and truly sad stuff.. and i do not quite get the religious fervour bit.. or is that fake also… man oh man.. i love black people.. i worked and lived amongst africans, and i loved the intelligence, the passion all… but the scraps in Oz land are scraps..please note .. im not saying all are scraps..im referring to thosse who are standout scraps.. of which there r a few…i like this post.. it is real.. real people, real lives.. assists in separating truth from crap…happy weekend all.Any black authentic man coming my way, do let me know, as the affinity will be there.. just want someone who is real!
February 24th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
I am a twenty year old white American lady and I love black men, and I am not overweight. In fact, I’m hot as hell. I love hip hop and green for good reason. Not because all I dream about is black dick. I mean, I do, but that is because I am most attracted to black men since, in my opinion, I see less ugly black men than I see ugly white men, and goddman, there’s just something about them. I don’t know. I’m not really into scrawny or bulky white dudes. That’s not to say I don’t find any white men attractive. I could name a few, but for some reason, they’re mostly gay (Nicolas Ghesquiere, Marc Jacobs) or no one else agrees with me on whomever I am interested in.
“It’s very possible that hip hop is really the only mainstream genre of music with room for innovative experimentation and it also elicits such a strong guttural reaction in people, the kind that music is really meant for.” -Lola Dompe
Mostly, I think this post is entirely useless since it doesn’t even matter, but since it’s been said and done, I will say my bit since I really don’t find this post remotely respectful or accurate. If the big Western white girl wants to get it rammed into her by a black man, then, by all means, allow her to without seemingly ignorant and rather negative posts. Yes, you’re allowed to say and do as you please, but SO AM I so I AM. And I will keep on pursuing those fiiiiine African men.
February 24th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
THAT’S RIGHT JENTIS! From my experience, white men do not satisfy as successfully and epically. Epically.
February 25th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
@Ali: Though I might be wrong, judging by the way you speak I think I might know people similar to you. Chances are, this post has very little to do with the world you live in. Actually just to confirm, which African men in particular do you tend to find yourself attracted to. Are they either:
1) African Americans.
2) Africans who grew up overseas since they were very young - i.e. 15 or less.
3) Ethiopian or Somali or Sudanese men.
If any of the above applies to you, I fully understand why you find this post useless, its not talking about you or your experiences at all.
April 16th, 2009 at 7:58 am
Hi Mwangi,
I posted a response here almost a year ago - in retrospect I find it not to have been all that relevant to the phenomenon at hand. I guess it was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. Reading through all the posts has given me a slightly different perspective on your own self, and perhaps your reasons for wanting to understand or somehow classify this phenomenon. You are respectful and patient in your responses, no matter how much ranting is involved. You seem genuinely interested, and perhaps concerned on behalf of the ‘unfortunate’ white women and FOBs you refer to? Ideally, neither group should be dating the other group for the specific reasons you mention (although who are we to tell people what to do.) Both groups deserve to be educated - e.g. healthy lifestyle, self-esteem - and to earn some genuine respect (basic human rights, no?).
April 17th, 2009 at 7:05 am
@peetee: Thanks
I agree….and thanks 
April 29th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
I was just trying to find more about African Ameri-African relationships. I know its common on the east coast U.S but I guess there is no interest here
April 30th, 2009 at 5:47 am
@Christine: You would probably be able to tell me more about that being based in the US while I am in Australia………..
May 12th, 2009 at 1:02 am
Dear Mwangi,
First of all I want to thank you for sharing your observations, it was very interesting, sometimes funny and sometimes sad~ But most importantly, it’s probably very very true. So me, though not being caucasian, but being ugly and fat, should better stay away from black guys, and in fact all guys in general, ‘cos if they ever approach me, they are definetly only after an easy lay and/or the food in my fridge, right? Well, thank you very much for letting me know that and reminding me how worthless fat and ugly women are, so that I won’t be fooled if any black guy ever even tries to talk to me. At least you are an honest person and I respect you for that.
Kind regards,
Sophia
May 12th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
@Sophia: Yours is quite a depressing comment I must say, I really don’t know how to react to it
Thanks for appreciating the honesty but please don’t equate all your worth in your looks and weight, its a hard trap to avoid as a woman but please don’t.
Also, sadly many African men are that callous………….
May 13th, 2009 at 7:54 am
yep depressing msg indeed. sophia are you black? cos if you are, the views here are not applicable to you at all. we are talking about the type of ‘white’ women who are generally attracted to black men..in Australia! we acknowledge that there are exceptions but this is the general rule as outlined by Mwangi. now if you are offended, just imagine how it is for an African male to have to live through this..here you have a situation where white women who are considered at the bottom of white society’s standard of desirability (set by white men of course) are clamouring for black men. i hear and read that this situation is also common in the U.S.A, but Not Europe. bcos women base their sense of self worth on their physical appearance in western society in particular, low self esteem is endemic all across the board with these women. their low sense of self worth at being made to feel worthless nd rejected by their white male counterparts forces them to seek new pastures with you guessed it..us black males. the main symptom of low self esteem is not always just a feeling of ‘less than’ but it can also masquerade as a feeling of ‘better than’, and nowhere is this more apparent than when a white woman steps up to a black man. this realisation honed in on me when my Australian friends took me to celebrate St.Patrick’s day (an Irish festivity) in St.Kilda jus after my arrival in Australia; i swore there were only 2 black guys there incl. me, and the rest was a sea of white people, so i naturally stood out, especially since I am 6ft 3in tall. now i don’t mean to blow my own horn, but i’ve been told by males and females of all ages and races that i am a handsome guy, and i was definitely more handsome than all my friends that day exceot one. it was therefore mind-blowing when 3 really huge, and NOT cute looking ladies older than i was came and chatted me up, almost totally ignoring the white males around me, and one of them was definitely flirting..that ‘take me to bed’ type flirting..they put me in a corner so to say, and my friends kind of stepped away to ‘give me my space’..all except one of them. his name was Pat and he was a very close buddy of mine..a gentleman infact, but truth is at this very moment he was drunk (any Irish festivity involves a lot of alchohol, even funerals) and let me tell you this; Australians go thru a personality metamorphosis when they are drinking more than any nation of people i’ve come across, and Pat was no exception. at that moment he threw his gentlemanliness out the window, put his hand on my shoulder in disgust and said “Nkosi why are you talking to these ugly bitches?” i was startled not only bcos that was very rude but also bcos i never knew that talking to huge, ugly girls was considered behavour non grata amongst the boyz in Australia. luckily they didn’t hear him, but during that interaction with those girls i found them ‘pushy’ in terms of trying to get me to hook up wit their gals and also i found that they had an ‘air of superiority’ over me about them (which was subconscious but apparent nonetheless), which is why they continued to put me in a corner even though my body language made it obvious that I was not attracted to them and i was not interested. i found ther courage and determination against the odds astounding..but later i realised that a lot of obese and unattractive white Australian girls have a sense of entitlement over black men.. that feeling that she can get any black man she wants
when i hooked up with my attractive girls of mixed background from the Pacific Islands (who was tall and slim like me) fat, ugly white women continued to step up to me, sometimes in her presence truly believing that i would dump my girlfriend for them (once again this was simply that subconscious ‘air of superiority’ bcos looks and personality wise, they had nothing on my girlfriend). do you know the humiliation, the feelin of less-than, the feeling of being covertly insulted that these experiences engender in a person like myself..now imagine if i was one of these callous african men, or one of these african men who subconsciously (notice i have not said consciously) has a feeling of inferiority to caucasians..well in that case, chances are i would have hooked with either one of those 3 girls bcos i would have picked out her weakness (the low self esteem and subconscious ‘feeling of superiority’ over darkies) and played on that to my advantage to either use and abuse her, or to walk around with her like some kind of TROPHY (due to my feelings of inferiority). likewise, white women wil play on some black men’s black men’s subconscious sense of inferiority to caucasians and try her luck in an arena where she wouldn’t dare with a white man. as a result, you will find that there are black men who feel entitled to obese white women and white women who feel entitled to all black men, and you’ll see this sense of entitlement in how they get react with surrise when they get rejected. that’s why i’ve stated in previous posts that a lot of these black man/white woman relationships are based on desperation, weakness, usury etc but not love. of course i know of relationships where mutual attraction and love was the common denominator, but these are the exceptions not the rule, and most african men don’t disagree with this..and it brings us shame collectively speaking..i mean, it’s not like it’s something that you can be proud of innit? so if you are offended, and find this forum depressing, take a walk in our shoes..we are the ones who live with this state of affairs..
..plus you are not a white woman as you state, so chances are highly likely this does not apply to you. the psychological and socio-economic factors outlined here are based ONLY on our observations of black man/white woman couples. if such relationships were based on love instead of these other debilitating & often below-the-surface factors, then i wouldn’t see any problem with these black man/ “kilogrammicaly’ challenged white woman couples…but just not like this
June 9th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
I am a firm opposer of interracial relationships. It tarnishes the purity of one’s own race. But the thing that frustrates me most is when African-American men get with white women, they treat them better than African-American women. Some of the same punishments holds true today as it did during the Jim Crow era towards African-American men and white women. And in divorce the African-American man is always left with NOTHING. O.J. Simpson, for example, was sentenced the second time for the murder of his ex-wife. I have no sympathy for him, he deserved everything he got. I don’t know why this doesn’t serve as an example for all Black men…to STAY WITH WOMEN OF YOUR OWN RACE AND LEAVE WHITE WOMEN ALONE!
June 10th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
Oh my god, i cannot believe that in 2009 when there is a brilliant man - the product of a inter-racial relationship himself - in the White House leading one of the most influential countries in the world & leading it well, that we are still debating if it’s Ok for inter-racial relationships to occur!
I have been in inter-cultural/inter-racial relationships for the best part of 20 years & it’s been a wonderful & enriching experience.
Yes, of course some inter-racial relationships are based on inequity & one person using another for their own ends…but, guess what, so are many relationships which involve people from the same culture!
It all depends on the individual. If you care about someone & they are from a different racial/cultural background then go for it. The biggest hurdle you’ll have to face is the narrow mindedness of some people in society - many of whom appear to post on this forum!
But if you’re in an inter-racial relationship & it’s exploitative or abusive…then get out of it. But remember it is because of the individuals involved that has created this dymanic - it has nothing to do with their skin colour or birth place.
June 11th, 2009 at 3:37 am
this is the 1st post i’ve come across here where someone is totally against interracial relationships…in 2009! ma’am with all due respect, if you do not condone IR dating then i suggest you check out of here and move to the next planet. some scientists would have us believe lately that life on the moon and mars wil soon be possible for mankind and that some segments of the world population will soon live there…kindly pave the way for us. in what way are the likes of Obama, Tatyana Ali, Boris Kodjoe, Ben Kingsley, Keanu Reeves, Vin Diesel, Bob Marley, Halle Berry, Prince, Rosario Dawson, Beyonce, Tiger woods, Jessica Alba, etc, etc, etc killing ‘racial purity’?! i don’t even understand what that means. if you are talking about keeping one’s genealogy homogenous, then u r suggesting not only should we stop dating people of different skin colour, but even us as black people need to stop dating across ethnic groups! it’s precisely this type of thinking that has had Africa engulfed in all sorts of civil wars and ethnic cleansing throughout history. so what you are in actual fact saying Angela Holt, is that black men of southern african origin like myself should not date or marry african women of West African origin (which would include yourself assuming you are african american) since the geneology is way too different..not forgetting that even within each of the 5 different regions of africa, the different ethnic grous have different genealogies. if your argument is that black people should not marry white people bcos of differences in culture, what if i told you that a white woman of afrikaaner descent would understand the way of the khoisan (bushman) much more than a black woman from Holland for instance and would therefore be more culturally compatible, or that an african american female youth from the big cities would not understand the ways of a herdman/warrior from Masai-mara. you sound like one of those stormfront or KKK chaps who talk about racial purity as if mixing white blood with any other type is akin to injecting oneself with pesticide or other poisons. that’s the mentality that caused so much racial strife in the olden days, and it was the major motivation behind apartheid - that people of different races should never ever procreate (they even interpreted the bible in such a way as to support this stance), and to enforce that laws should be applied to keep them separate from each other, and therefore ‘racially pure.’ do you know that your argument of keeping the races apart from each other and hence ‘pure’ can be used to justify some of the most heinous crimes against humanity, and it already has?
and by the way, out of curiosity are you against only white women dating black men, or all other types of women who are non-black too. and don’t ever use the argument about white women wanting to take all the wealth of a successful black man bcos a whole lot of you black women are gold-digging women too, and you know it…besides the likes of Snoop Dogg, Jay-Z, dr Dre, etc keep reminding us of this stereotype regularly in their lyrics…and since you say black men can get punished for dating white women, well in the past a black man of my ethnic group would get ostracized by my community for dating a woman of Khoi San origin, even though we come from the same country and are both black. are u saying i should keep the status quo (ie. avoid them at all costs) just cos of what happened in the past?
June 11th, 2009 at 5:18 am
THANK YOU nkosi for addressing & challenging Angela’s comments on this forum, particularly from the perspective of a black man. Thanks you again. Take care. Jo.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:58 am
I too would like to respond to Angela Holt’s ignorance. Angela obviously is not a Christian. I come to this conclusion because EVERY Christian knows that the Bible teaches us that God created us in his image and we are ALL decendants of Adam and Eve…… 1 set of original parents = 1 race. Has that race changed over time - I would say yes……
My question to Angela would be - which is the “pure” race and which are the “unpure” races?
Also, I will make an educated guess that Angela is single and bitter because of it. My African-American husband will tell you that there were many things that attracted him to me - my mind was just one of the attractions. We have very similar opinions and many things in common - not to mention that after almost 18 years together, we are still VERY much attracted physically to one another.
Angela, white women such as myself have not stolen the successful black men from black women……. My husband loves black women - before me he was married to a black woman and although I am statingh the obvious, his mother whom he adored was a black woman. But, I can assure you that even if he were not with a “white woman,” he would not be with a woman such as yourself. He reads people very well and could probably size you up in a second. He is not attracted to bigoted close minded individuals and you, Angela are both. Maybe if you open your mind and close your mouth, you can find a good man and shed that bitterness that you are harboring for women that have wonderful men in their lives.
June 16th, 2009 at 6:07 am
If you look at it from a scientific & historic perspective, white people are also ‘displaced’ Africans… seventy thousand years or so ago (according to DNA research) a group of Africans left the continent to gradually spread out all over the world, slowly adapting to suit their environment (unless you don’t believe the theory of evolution).
Nkosi - you make a very valid point:
http://www.africanloft.com/africa-is-the-cradle-of-mankind-and-has-the-most-genetic-diversity-study-reveals/
Dear Angela: I hope you can move on and appreciate & value yourself and other people as members of the genetically very diverse but ONE race of mankind?
Peace-o
June 16th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
hi all - thank you so much to the recent posters on the board who have responded to angela’s comments. it has restored not only my faith in forums such as this but also in human nature as a whole & intercultural understanding.
i would echo Peace-o by saying have a look at dr. alice roberts’ bbc program about the origins of mankind (’the incredible human jounrey’)…all of us originally came from africa as the scientific evidence shows & as people spread out around the world their skin colour/appearance adapted to the environment over time.
thank you too, to hijack323 for giving us a positive story about what sounds like a beautiful & successful intercultural relationship. i also am a white woman in love with & in a secure relationship with a wonderful man from kenya - my partner loves black women just as much & the mother of his child is black & they have a very respectful relationship. we fell in love with each other -our values, beliefs & attitudes & sense of being in the world & even sense of humour is very similar - our different skin colour is irrelevant to us although it seems not to everyone!
finally i would also like to say that while i understand the points made by & about recently arrived african men in australia, this is very far from my own experiences. while i live in the uk now, i was born & lived in australia for more than 40 years. i taught english to adult african men for many, many years & yes some did have white partners (usually attractive & very sweet ones) but many had partners from their own community as well. i spent a lot of time with these guys & we discussed many aspects of their lives - never once did they raise the issue of a feeling they had no choice but to be with an ‘ugly, fat white woman’ - what a horrible stereotype anyway! all these guys studied, many had jobs & some were planning to go on to uni. they certainly didn’t ‘need’ a white woman for money as they all had money & they didn’t need her for a passport or visa coz they had this as well - in fact most were permanent residents. so i’m really puzzled as why african men in australia would ever need to behave in the demeaning way which is often described on this forum.