Jungle Fever: The Relationship Between African Men and White Women
January 17th, 2008
Part seven of the 10 things I wish I knew before leaving Africa
From Wikipedia encyclopedia: Jungle fever- a slang term for interracial relations
It was my last week in Kenya and I was just about to be shipped off to Australia. There I was, casually sauntering through Carnivore trying to convince older women that I still wasn’t being breast fed. Out of the corner of my eye I saw a friend of mine, drunker than a depressed brewery worker, come staggering down. He staggered directly to me, plopped his hand on my shoulder and delivered a monologue that I will probably never forger until the day I die. I paraphrase:
“You guy as you ship over, remember something….(dramatic pause) Those Western women love black d***. These chicks wait at the airport with signs just chilling for the next black dude to step off the plane..(At this point, I drifted off into fantasy land imagining the possibilities of what he had just told me)”
You can’t even imagine what that did to me. As I stepped on that Kenya Airways plane, I had a pep in my step and I wasn’t looking back. And then I arrived!!!
So What Do I Know Five Years Later?
I am glad you asked. I have been in boarding school in the country, Christian schools, public schools, different cities, different states and different Universities. I have hung out with Kenyans, Zims, Tswanas, Ugandans, Asians, Indians, Caucasians the whole shebang (btw what type of word is shebang? who came up with a word like shebang?). My observation is pretty simple. African men being mighty conquerors who head on over to Western countries and can seduce any Western woman they want because they all swoon over him: by and large that’s a myth!
There are in general five types of Western women who get jungle fever for African men:
1) Girls with low self esteem
2) Girls who are ‘kilogramically challenged’ aka a tad bit overweight
3) Girls with drug problems
4) Girls who wanna ‘be down’ (think double-entendres here)
5) Girls who watch too much interracial porn or spend way too much time in fantasy land
Low Self Esteem and Overweight
I have put these two together for one reason. Now ladies, please, correct me if I am wrong: I have noticed that as far as woman are concerned, even in this post-feminist age, majority of women still pretty much value themselves on the basis of their beauty and/or their desirability to potential suitors.
If you don’t believe me, Google ‘Weight loss’ and see how many results come up. Go to the supermarket and check how many of those magazines talk about fabulous dresses and ways to please your man. Finally, tell a girl she is stupid and unemployable and watch her reaction. Finally tell her she is ugly and no one will ever find her attractive.See which of the two derives a stronger reaction (btw please don’t actually do this experiment to see how hurt someone gets, I can tell you right now in my experience it’s the ugly comment that hurts the most)
So let’s assume you now agree with me. Now out here in the West, fat women aren’t generally considered beautiful. Therefore if women feel they are not beautiful and desirable they tend to feel pretty worthless and have self-esteem and self-confidence issues.
Cue the African Man
I won’t even bother explaining and philosophizing on it……I’ve got two stories for you:
The Story of the Fully Stocked Fridge (An African Man’s Take on Why We Sleep with Fat Western Women, again I paraphrase. Actually anytime I quote someone, assume I am paraphrasing and not giving you a verbatim quote unless I state otherwise): So you’re in the club and you know, you are not there to preach. You have three missions, chill with your boys, grab a cold one and finally maybe leave with a little something something…..
So you check in the club it’s maybe 9:30pm, sit down and start vibing with your boys. The pints start coming and a good time is being had by all. Then around midnight,you start to feel your soldier down south telling you it’s time to go hunting.
So you know, there are a few mirooz(Africans for the uninitiated) around, so you begin campaigning. You ask to the left, is nothing. You ask to the right, nyimwad (denied).
Then you notice something out of the corner of your eye but you push it aside. Around 2:30 a.m. that thing that was taking up just a corner is now taking up the ENTIRE space of both your eyes. She’s a big woman and you’re like, “There’s no way…there’s just no way.”
At 3 a.m., you rewrite your rules and draft a new constitution. And so you look around and say to yourself, “Enyewe njaa ni mbaya (the hunger is bad).”
3:15a.m., you are there with your hand outstretched, asking her if you can connect the dots. Talking is just a formality and after a quick convo, you leave together.
Now the great thing about sleeping with a big woman is come the next morning. You have finished your work. Now she’s a big woman so you’ve just put in overtime on that shift. But when you go to the fridge…..”
“….Fully loaded! If you’re a broke or a student, it’s like going to heaven. By sleeping with big mamas you save $50 in shopping every week.”
So What’s the Game Plan?
The Book Review (This is another friend of mine telling me about a book he had just recently read):
“The guy who wrote the book is a bright guy. Now anytime you look at a group of chicks, there is always either an ugly one or a fat one, sometimes they are the same person. Now other guys will be campaigning for the other chicks, but you, you’re a time saver. You compromise on quality for the evening and you slide on in to the unattractive often neglected friend. A bit of flattery, make her feel beautiful and boom, you’re in.”
Btw both stories are true, a bit exaggerated but very very true.
Has a Drug Problem and Wants to Be Down
Again these two are very much related. These women tend to be the women who are knee deep into the hip hop culture and think that African is one big country where we ALL listen to hip hop and act like 50 cent-Ask someone who’s been in the West a while and you learn this stereotype is surprisingly common.
So after listening to enough Bone Thugs n Harmony, they begin to sample marijuana, or a bit of cocaine or speed or whatever. And soon enough they become addicted. What do they do?
1) First they seek people to smoke with. (btw I kid you not, for those of you who haven’t found enough odd things on the Internet, there is actually a dating site for marijuana smokers. I guess we all need love…..)
2) And then they seek someone to sell them the drugs on a regular basis
Cue the Black Man
This spot is reserved for the African brothers who are also knee deep into hip hop. In my first couple of years here, it was quite common for people to stop me and ask me if I had any drugs or any pills. So if a white girl finds a brother and he can fulfill he narcotic cravings, it’s a match made in heaven, or grown in a coca farm in Bolivia.
A Few Problems Though
1)Some of these women tend to take this trying-to-be-African-American-thing a bit too far and even decide they will try to be drama queens like, “some of the sistaz they saw on TV.” This pretty much guarantees that a quiet night of socializing turns into a session where she huddles up with ‘her girlfriends’ to talk about, “men aint worth s……”
2) When she tires of the hip hop lifestyle or she outgrows it or the consequences come knocking, she will dump a brother and leave him cold and alone faster than you can say, “She’s my woman and she’s gonna stand by her………”
The Mandingo Fantasy
In truth, this fantasy probably plays a role in almost all cases of Jungle Fever. This fantasy basically reduces all young black men all over the world into strong ebony love-making Gods with elephant trunks swaying between their legs and the love-making skills of Don Juan in his prime. Women who strongly by into this fantasy tend to have either watched too much interracial porn or too many movies that talk about how, “brothers are packing down south.” Now I am yet to meet an African man who is willing to argue against this fantasy or attempt to disprove it in any way. I am not about to but it’s definitely something that’s there and you should know about.
However, if you wanna know what type of women regularly try to test out this fantasy to see if it matches reality, generally they have characteristics 1 through 4 in the list above.
So What’s the Point? What Should We Do?
Well this depends on what you want. What my friend promised me at Carnivore is true. If you are coming to Australia just to get laid without regard for the type of person you sleep with, you can. All you have to do is hang around the night clubs and flatter people here and there. In fact a friend of mine’s strategy consists of him going to a club sitting down, drinking and waiting for a white girl to come and flirt with him.
However, if you want good quality relationships, as is always the case, it is very difficult to find. What I would advise is you best be bringing something else to the table rather than a promise of a trunk long enough to choke a gorilla. The people who get the quality tend to be very interesting special people; They may be good looking. They may have a very endearing idiosyncrasy. They may be so smooth they can skate on sand. They may be extraordinarily gifted at business, writing (that’s me 
lol), sports, academia whatever. I think the solution to the quality problem is, as much of a cliche as it is:
Know what your passions are. Pursue your passion with vigour and intensity and if you grow a garden beautiful enough, people will come. In truth, from an empirical standpoint, I am not really sure what the solution is. However,I will definitely make it one of the points of this blog to answer that question. I really hope this blog has served.
Before you leave make sure you leave a comment below and let me know your thoughts. Until then, stay off the porn.
If you want more articles that talk about the African immigrant experience, make sure you subscribe to the blog for either free email updates or to receive regular RSS updates ( Click on this link to learn just what the heck RSS is )
Be blessed and bless others,
Mwangi
For the women reading this, your situation is a lot different from this from what I have observed and studied. This will definitely be a topic of future posts. If you have any thoughts, any ideas, any thing, you think you missed, either leave a comment below or contact me and let me know.
Update: Many months later I did write the article: Jungle Fever 2: The Relationship Between White Men and African Women
January 18th, 2008 at 5:44 am
Great post! Had to laugh at the “save 50$ a week” part, but felt a little guilty when I actually realized it could (or is) true.
Thanks for a little eye-opener, this is definately one of your better posts
Alex
January 18th, 2008 at 5:51 am
Thanks for the compliment man. It’s gr8 that you learned something. By the time you’re through with the blog you’ll pretty much be an honorary African
January 18th, 2008 at 8:53 am
haha! I can’t wait
January 25th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
It’s absolutely fascinating to me man and I’m glad to see it fascinated you. Which parts didn’t you understand I may be able to guide you in the right direction?
January 28th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Passing through and wanted to tell you I enjoyed my stay
January 28th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
Thank you for passing by. Hope to see you again
February 5th, 2008 at 7:43 am
Hey!, I fell lucky that I located this post while browsing for dating african women. I am with you on the topic of The Displaced African. Ironically, I was just putting a lot of thought into this last Monday.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:57 am
i feel very much offended by your article..i am a white woman and my parner is an african man.none of your five points apply to me.i am an outgoing young woman ex model (not over weight or under weight)studying and about to go to university that just happenned to fall in love with a black man.in the uk its a multicultural society and i have friends from every race and culture.obviously there is still a small minority of narrow minded people like yourself.although, i imagine these cases may apply to some(1-5 points).i fasinated to know where you completed your studies.i imagine the us.i find what you have said may be true in some cases but certainly NOT all,and i feel you are either racist,poorly educated or just do not have enough life experience and knowledge on this topic to write this article.it shouldnt matter about the colour of your skin,just educating and understanding each other cultures
March 4th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
just read over the top of your article and was amazed your study was in australia,,
March 4th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Hey Katherine,
First of all, forgive me, this response will be a little meandering.Secondly, you are right, the post broke the world down into gross generalizations and simplifications and there are definitely exceptions to the rules laid down in the post.I must admit that I admire your anger and outrage at me. It shows that you really care about your partner. He must be really lucky to have you. The post did not occur as a result of academic investigation….rather it came about through people in my home country setting very high expectations for me and my coming over and having those expectations shattered. If you don’t believe me, please begin to observe the African interaccial couples (African Americans and people from the West Indies tend to be in a different category from native Africans) and tell me these stereotypes in point 1 through 5 don’t apply a bit too often. Believe me I am far from narrow minded, perhaps you may be one of the rare exceptions that I should celebrate and promote in the blog. Thanks for stopping by!
March 4th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
I would also recommend that you show this post to your partner and his friends - assuming they are native Africans- and ask them if there is a grain of truth to this article. I have had very little argument against this post or its ideas from the African community. Again, thanks for stopping by, hope you respond with as much passion to my other posts.
PS: I am educated….dem big wurds me use them well (lol):D
March 4th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Aah then I see where one of the problems is. I think one of the problems is you misunderstood one of the earlier sentences in the post. In the post I said something to the effect of these are the type of white women who go for African men and not that ALL white women are this or that. I think if you don’t fall into one of these categories you should chuckle and appreciate the fact that yours is one of those rare beautiful unions.
Hope that clears up a thing or two
March 4th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Finally katherine understand that my conclusions in the article came about as a result of observation. They did not occur in some vacuum in my head or in some anti-whitey black people meeting. They occurred by living in Australia for six years and interacting with 100s of Africans including the ones who have Western girlfriends and interacting with Western people myself while I was here. I think if this article is a sad reflection upon anyone (after all, isn’t the old adage that behind every great joke there is a tragedy) it is a sad reflection upon the African man and the way he is perceived, the way he perceives himself and the choices that he makes as opposed to a negative reflection upon white women. After all, in the end of the article I give my opinions on those people who have had outstanding interracial relationships - who here are sadly in the minority. I guess you are right we shall simply have to agree to disagree. Should this article bother you and offend you so much and you be determined that what I am saying is hogwash I am more than willing to interview you and your partner either over written word or audio and post it up as a ‘model of what is possible’. After all, that’s what my site is about. Is that fair?
Btw for those who are wondering what the heck am I talking about, Katherine has been writing to me via email and I am trying to put the conversation out there in the open for everyone to participate.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
I can’t believe you were foolish enough to believe white women would be waiting at the airport for black men(or any group of men ). That was somewhat amusing, however the stereotyping is a bit disheartening. You should always treat everyone as an individual and if this is the only type of white women you have met, you should get out more.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
@ Caustic: Oh my dear if we were to go through all the stupid things I have done and believed over the course of my life, we would be here for days on end.
I think I should make it clear that in this article I wasn’t stereotyping as much as I was trying to describe in a humorous manner what I have observed. Never forget I believed that at the airport I would be met by Jennifer Hawkins lookalikes and thats how life was for all African men. If the stereotyping disheartened you, how do you think I felt watching my expectations getting knocked down one by one.
As for going out more, you are probably right, we will see what I have to say about this article, a year from now.
March 17th, 2008 at 10:20 am
And when I say you need to get out more, I am not talking about going to clubs, IMHO, that is the worst place to meet someone.
March 17th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
On that we both agree. Going to the club to get a life partner is like buying a Hummer to conserve fuel: it only makes sense if you’re really twisted (hmm, I just came up with that metaphor, surely there are better metaphors around)
April 5th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Mwangi, why are you justifying yourself and your comments to these white women who are “offended” by your insights into what I believe is right on the money! I totally agree that there is a pattern and whether these women want to admit it or not, it’s happening, consciously or not. I have to add that in some sense it applies to Black women of non-African heritage as well. I’m disappointed after reading such an entertaining article full of “generalisations …” you now back pedal just because someone with $50 worth of groceries shows you her fridge. And please, I really don’t want to hear from any of you white women who are offended by what I have to say to Mwangi. P-leeez.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
The penny just dropped, a website that is an innovative way to meet the 5 types of Australian women. My bad. Cheers.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Hey extinct, thanks for defending my article. I want to make sure that absolutely everyone who reads the article understands where I am coming from.That’s why I am going to painstaking lengths to explain where I am coming from. In addition to that, indeed this blog is about moving beyond those generalizations to a much better place. That’s just me and the way I blog really. Yet again, thanks for sticking up for me.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
@extinct: I didn’t understand the second comment.
Btw, please share what you have observed in terms of black women of non African heritage (isn’t that an oxymoron); I am always curious as to the female side of this equation?
May 18th, 2008 at 1:54 am
We-ell, you can’t all be Kofi Anan, Tiger Woods, Seal, Christian Karembeu, Patrick Kluivert, to name but a few… (meaning: check out their wives).
OK OK, a bit lame perhaps, but I’m trying to make a point - what about the quality of the men themselves (never mind their colour).
And who could object to this: http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.geocities.com/mclane65/th
May 18th, 2008 at 1:59 am
@peetee: Whereas there is no denying that there are outstanding individuals and great people in every single race….I am discussing the cultural tendencies of African males. The individuals you have discussed are outstanding men..I was referring to the tendency of majority of “ordinary” (does that word really have any meaning) African men.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:14 am
I just stumbled by and dude, this is HILARIOUS!! I almost cried with laughter when I read those stereotypes and then scrolled down and saw that picture!! Please, you don’t really sleep with chicks that fat? Do you?!?!? Please say no!!
And Katherine, chill out, he did say ‘in general’ after all. I only know one other White girl who is dating an Afri boy, a Zim boy to be specific and she totally fits into the ‘Wants to Be Down’ category. I’m so happy that I don’t fit into any of the categories.
Is it really that hard to find a nice White girl who doesn’t fit those categories? Hmmm maybe it is.
I know it never occurred to me to date an African, the thought just never crossed my mind…until that fateful day when the Ugandan boy dropped his do fuck-not-with-I-and-I look and smiled at me…and I was hooked.
Save you $50 a week, ROFL!!!
May 19th, 2008 at 1:20 am
@DeTamble:I can’t say I have had the pleasure of pleasing a kilogramically challenged lady, but that happens A HELLUVA lot. Any African guy I show the article usually just nods his head.
I can’t seem to find any white women dating African men outside of that category…I am holding out hope though…watch this space.
You really can’t make that $50 story up.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:31 am
Woah!! You’re awake! Are you studying or something? A ‘kilogramically challenged lady’ HAHAHAHA! They nod their head? OMG so it’s true, they desperate enough to sleep with FAT girls!! Ewwww! Those poor boys! What’s wrong with the normal Australian girls, why haven’t we noticed the African boys yet!! I guess we’re just a bit slow and sometimes you guys do look a little scary when you wander around in groups, looking all black and buff
I get the $50 thing. Since becoming a student I’ve realised that toast is actually a meal all on its own, no matter how much my Mother disagrees, and that chocolate is fanciful dream that doesn’t really exist.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:37 am
@DeTamble: I work during the night and sleep during the day…wats ur excuse? It’s a mixture of things, it’s not just that their desperate (though a lot of them that’s exactly it), Africans are also genuinely attracted to big women. Some do take even that one a bit tooooooo far.
The article refers to people such as myself who are Fresh of the Boats, for African people who grew up here, a lot of the time it’s an entirely different ball game.
One thing I realized from the short time I was a student, is that food is the last thing on the list of things that people want to buy - clothes, party etc must take priority…….
May 19th, 2008 at 1:45 am
My excuse, oh you know, the usual. I’m not writing an assignment that is due tomorrow
And I have work in 5 hours. Should really make an effort soonish…
Big women…as big as those three girls in the pic? Cause in my opinion that’s a little scary
Those women aren’t fat, they is obeeeese!!
What’s the difference in the girls for the Africans who grew up here?
Food…how I long for thee. As I write this my tummy is grumbling angrily at me and I feel faint but my brand new pair of Bettina Liano jeans are looking mighty fine!!
May 19th, 2008 at 1:53 am
@DeTamble: Ah yes, the assignments….you school kids really do suffer….I can see you are doing some…er…er….research into…the….into…the….how did you find this article, because I would love to know what you were searching for? (I can guess though)
Yeah, some brothers end up out here with some pretty scary looking women…sad but true.
People who grow up here, 2 things happen (a lot more possibilities, but these are the main things I have observed):
a) They kinda go a bit crazy and go against the typical African expectations in one way or many ways (I fall into this category)
b) They buy into the whole gangsta thing waaayyy too much and dumb themselves down. But since they grew up here and know how things flow, these dumb cats get laid quite a bit.
These guys tend to get better looking women….as for personality….in truth I don’t hang about these cats so I can’t give you insider info but from afar it looks like a lot of them go for looks over substance, which I guess is still an improvement over some FOBs who, direct quote,: “end up kissing rhinos .”
May 19th, 2008 at 2:08 am
Yes us Uni kids
I was researching homosexuality in Africa then I got distracted by some African American stuff and then I got even more distracted and Googled black men with white women and WOW!! Americans are fucked!!!! Anyway…lets not go there.
I find gangsta a little weird, you’re right, like they dumbed themselves down. And they keep calling girls baby, gah, we do have names!
Well, I hope you never are left to get desperate enough to go ‘kissing rhinos’!!
Which city are you living in? Melbourne?
May 19th, 2008 at 2:33 am
@DeTamble: I’m a Melbourne boy all the way. I tried Sydney, but Melbourne just drew me back in. The way my life is going at the moment, me thinks that I won’t have too worry to much about rhinos or anything like that.
Those guys who dumb themselves down sadden me, so much potential, so much access to everything you could ever need and you spend your spare money on grills when a book is $0.99.
You know it always astounds me how popular this article is in Google. It has consistently brought in the most Google Traffic……goes to show you what folks are after on the Internet I guess.
May 19th, 2008 at 2:42 am
You have Google Analytics? I hail from Melbourne, way back, in the Golden days
I’m in Brisbane now, not that I don’t love it here but frankly, it’s just not Melbourne. Sydney smells funny 
99c? That’s far too much! Just steal them from the library like me
Joking, I don’t really steal books from the library…or do I?
Once I posted something titled ‘Watch that Cock grow, I mean Crow’ and it got sooooo many hits, I was astounded and mildly creeped out. Guess the net really is only for sex!
Btw you’ve got a cool welcome message, I like your accent, watch out though, you’re starting to sound a little too Australia, you’ll go home and no one will understand you
May 19th, 2008 at 3:03 am
@DeTamble: LOL! I look forward to hearing about the Brisbane woman dropping the soap because she stole a 20 cent book from a Brisbane Borders
Do I really sound Aussie :O ? How on Earth did that happen? Thx for the kind words. I’ve been an analytics groupie for a while now.
It would be so easy to get traffic by just discussing sex all the time…but I must focus on doing something bigger than that
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:29 pm
MR. Mwangi,
Thanks for providing such article. I believe the “Interracial relationship” mainly between White Women/Black Men caught your eyes and you truly tried to investigate the reasons. I admire your view and it should not be considered something delivered by a white racist as Katherine Said. First of all I would like to tell you I am not white nor an African, I am a man from Indian and traveled different places. I hardly found any interracial couple (or may be less than 3%). There are different reasons as to why few White Women choose Black Men. I intend to add few more reasons out of the clause (1 to 5). Reasons are as under: -
Body development: - Interracial dating among those who are in between 13 to 15 is somewhat common. It is medically proven that White girls get larger and devolve more adulthood than white boys at that particular age (This documentary shown on Discovery Channel). This age is vital as girls enjoy their physical changes and want to find someone who can admire them or share the joy of such feelings. Who do they find? Girls of their age, Elder Sisters at home and sometime obviously Black Boys! Yes Black Boys become more matured during that phase, always act as matured man and that attracts some White Girls where White Boys literally remain as school boys (Nothing wrong in it). For some White Girls this attraction lasts for years and causes a myth that Black Boys are more confident and matured but it is totally false. If they had been confident enough then Africa would be the Earth’s most developed Continent and in fact it is not.
The science of mental life: - It related to compassion. There are lots of stories around like Uncle Tom’s Cabin and about the time of slavery. I don’t know at what extent they were true. I have many white Friends and I simply can not believe that their great grandparents were that inhuman. But myths work like anything. Some stories describe that Black African Men were sentenced to death just for staring at White Ladies. Some White Women feel that it is pay back time and can share their lives with the Black Men for eliminating the sins stored by their forefathers (It is not very common but you may find such cases).
Some women, believe it or not are crime oriented, some women like to mingle with criminals. It is my real experience with many Indian and other women. I really do not know why but it is partially true. They find them more masculine and attractive.
Sometime it is simply love that Katharine described. Yes and this could be normal but it is because of color contrast and different attitude. Some are attracted to other race. It is applicable for both men and women.
High divorce rate causes panic. A white woman deliberately believes that she is superior to her black male partner and this thought leads her to a belief that she might always be adored by her partner.
Ladies (Both Black & White) are equally concerned as to why their men are going for girls from different race. A group of German Girls expressed their annoyance after Boris Backer had married his Afro-German Girlfriend.
Finally I thank you for this article also apologies for any of my comments that you may find offensive. Have a nice day
Regards,
Prakash
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Welcome Prakash and I am glad you enjoyed the article. Interestingly enough, the only point you brought up that seemed to resonate with my experiences was the comment you made about some women liking criminals…..a lot of women, especially Westernized ones love bad boys because of their confidence so…
I think a lot of white teenage girls who go for African men simply do so because of the mandingo fantasy, because they find us attractive AND our confidence. I can assure you, Africans have their fair share of arrogance and I think the fact that our continent is actually still standing after all the pressure it’s been to is testament to that.
People mingling outside of the race, in my opinion, bothers people because they don’t want to lose the potential to keep people for themselves ( well that’s the case with me and African women anyway). You know what, you came correct, you showed respect in my home, whatever offensive remarks you may have made, I will let them slide. Have a good one.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:42 am
Hi Mwangi,
I didnt agree with you so much about what you wrote on Obama but on this one i agree with you 100 %.
I just bumped into this site today but be sure i am going to check in again and again, hope you keep on writing.Kudos
June 10th, 2008 at 7:50 am
@Wanjiku: Thank you for stopping by and I look forward to hearing what you have to say about my other posts. Actually, should you read this, I would love to hear why you disagree with the Obama post.
I am constantly amazed by how little disagreement there is from people of African descent whenever they read this post….I guess the standards and expectations placed on African men just aren’t very high or something like that….anyway, interesting.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
mywangi,
Enjoyed the article and found myself looking for me in it (American white woman). I couldn’t resist adding my own comments on why i have suddenly found myself attracted to african men.
Never dated an african american, simply never attracted.Moved to Thailand about 4 years ago and went through the rites of passage,namely, dated thai men.
Here is where the size comes in, I’m no big fatty but definitely curvy (size 12 American) but here in thailand, that is mammoth. Men are really small here, there is no social taboo telling someone they are fat and by thai standards, I am. A girl can start to get a complex!
Along comes the random African man (please note: NOT African American). Here is what hooked me: #1 The voice: very deep and laced with a sexy accent (sorry, i just melt when its French - Hence, not the American). #2 Their size: After dating tiny thai men, Africans just felt like real men - made me feel like a woman (petite, feminine). At this writing, I’ve never gone back. (one is reminded of a certain cliche` here. . .)
Ah, but alas, my limited experience with African men has allowed me to make my own sweeping(somewhat negative) generalizations about them! I’ll apologize now if i offend, but here goes: #1 Sweetest talkers i have ever met, the flattery flows and they are very forward about how much they want you. #2 Possibly the most impeccably dressed men on the planet, they are meticulous in their own presentation, which, if other men don’t know this, is very attractive and (here it comes) #3 Absolute dogs. sorry. I’ve come to sense that African men have a deep respect and reverence for their fathers and i inevitably find out that they are a product of one of their father’s relationships because he, of course, has had many. Serial fatherhood may be a common cultural trait (enlighten me with the stats if you’ve got them) but it creates in this western woman the realization that she’s with a player.
It makes me sad that I’ll never have a real, long term relationship with an African man, I’m simply knocked out by them. Of course, this player stereo is applicable to all races but my own experience has taught me to proceed with caution (translation: run like my hair’s on fire!)
thanks for allowing me to sound off.
lis
June 13th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
@lis: Hello and welcome to the tDA. Well, everything you have said is pretty much on point and applicable as far as I can tell to African folks:
a) We are indeed impeccable, to a very large extent, when it comes to dressing and hygiene. In my culture for example, men don’t take pride in farting in front of each other and other folks for sport, something which is quite common in other folks.
b) Most of us think relationship commitment is an oxymoron and indeed African men can be very smooth tongued and up front.
Nothing you have said offended me at all, it all seemed very on point.
Thanks for sharing your experiences and adding them to the record on this blog.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:33 am
Wow.. I just happened to stumble across this article today. Now while i can completely appreciate the humor within your five types of western women. ( stero types do exsist for a reason do they not ? ) and I myself fit into the “big girl” category i do not however fit the low self esteem or ugly criteria. I’m confident in myself, I know I am a very attractive woman I’ve done a lot of plus size modeling in the past not only am I heavy but tall as well around 5′10″. A lot of men like a girl of size. But I digress I also agree COMPLETELY with what Lis said in her post about African men. I also would like to add that there is a sense of reverse racism ( at least in my experience) This is my experience. I met a very attractive smooth opereating guy from Tanzania, he was very upfront about how the things he wanted to do to me. From the moment he walked in his eyes where on me like i was the last biscuit on the plate and he hadnt eaten anything in about 3 weeks. Everytime i would glace his way he was staring at me with this little smirk and gleam in his eyes like “i’m gonna tap that ” anyways there was some alcohol involved and dancing and music one thing led to another… Fast forward to now I’m getting ready to give birth in Septmenber to a baby girl by this guy. He has been completely unsupprtive says he does not need to take a paternityt test because he “knows” its not his baby he could never get a white girl pregnant. I also later found out that he already had an African girlfriend during the time we where together and that basically this guy likes to fuck white women but they are not worth anything more than that to him and from talking to other people i know this seems to hold true for a lot of them. There are a lot of white girls who in a moment of weakness or poor judgement end up getting pregnant to these guys and they just move on …. spreadin their seed like its nothing. This is really sad and unfortunate for these kids . I dont know why I am venting all of this . It helps tho as you can imagine i have a lot of frustration at the situation. It’ s not that i really want to be in a relationship with this guy he’s proved himself to be arrogant and lacking a heart and just plain cruel and cold. But i do want him to own up that he has a resposibility for his actions and maybe it will teach him to keep his Mandingo in his pants ( a term btw I was not familiar with till i met him and he would talk about how wanted to give me his mandingo or “big black african cock” . just some thoughts and general venting . I dont know maybe you can shed some light on the situation . I’m just at a loss.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:41 am
@Dawn: Unfortunately your situation is far too common…..I think you are a bit more blessed than some of the other white women that get lied to. For example, there are those relationships that Africans get into “for the paperwork” and while they may whisper sweet things in your ear on one side, on the other, they brag to African people about how they can lie and manipulate natives of said country.
Where I say you are lucky is you saw his clear intention early on and are now able to address it. He will probably never own up willingly and so whatever you do understand that indeed that reverse racism you were talking about does exist and I may not know about your situation personally (hence my opinion is based on my experience and stereotypes and isn’t worth a grain of salt) but the chances of him stepping up, owning up and doing the right thing are close to nil.
The one thing that a lot of us share is right before we leave, either our mother, grandmother or aunties will say, “Don’t bring us a white woman.” (with white being essentially anything other than African, usually a native of whichever country or tribe your from).
Hope this information has helped you understand and navigate the murky waters of what must be a trying time. I’m sure your child will be gorgeous.
June 23rd, 2008 at 4:41 am
Thank you for your replay. You have pretty much confirmed what i was thinking all along. in regards to ” dont bring us home a white woman ” thing. I find it to be really sad that there are still such lines and resentments towards another person based on things such as race , sexuality, culture , weight ect. while these may be components of a whole they are by no means the whole of a person there are factors infinite and unknown to every one and every situation. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and writings I am finding them to be very enjoyable as I am always open to good conversation and things that make one think . If you have my space I would love to add you as a friend there I have my setting on private tho ( too many random pervy guys with the “hey youve got nice tits , we should fuck ‘) I have some selected things written there as I am really just starting to get into the whole blogging thing and i find it a good way to keep in contact with friends ( easy to do to !! Im not the most computer literate person) at any rate here’s my link
http://www.myspace.com/chaoticheaven
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:57 pm
@Dawn: I am glad I was able to be of some use. I am not a myspacer and am barely a facebooker as is so unfortunately can’t add you to myspace but can definitely add you to my facebook.
As for the whole, don’t bring me a white woman thing, it may not be politically correct to say but I kinda see where it comes from: people in our communities never want to lose the good members or the members with potential within it. And considering how weak and bruised and battered our African communities are we need all the good people we can get. What I absolutely abhor is the callousness with which so many of my African compatriots enter interracial relationships with zilch concern for the other party and only thinking about themselves.
June 28th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
I read your original post and some of the responses. I am a white American woman. I was married for 9 years to a white man and after my divorce, dated both white and black men. I have been married for 11 1/2 years to a black man, both of or second marriages. His first wife was black. I love men in general but find myself more attracted to black men. My husband told me that when he first met me, he knew that I was comfortable around black people. At one time, my house mate and best friend was a black female. He tells me that many white people do not seem genuinely comfortable around black people. I have my own theories about why I am attracted to black men. None of them seem to be in line with your theories. I am a bit overweight right now, but this is recent. Most of the time when I dated black men, I weighed about 105 lbs. I am 5′6″ so I was not overweight at all - in fact, quite the opposite. When I was 14 years old, I became involved with a 14 year old black boy. He was kind, handsome and he was crazy about me. I went with him for almost a year. This was in 1973. I was shunned by many of the white boys at my school. The ones that gave me the hardest time were the ones that I would never have given the time of day. I was head cheerleader for the middle school cheerleading squad and trust me, I never had a problem getting or keeping a boyfriend. I pretty much had my pick and the white boys at my school could not handle the fact that I chose a black boy over them. Later, when I moved up to high school, my black boyfriend and I broke up. White boys began dating me again, but they always expected me to apologize to them for my previous choice and say that I had made a mistake. Even when I was in my late 20s I dated, for a short period of time, a man that had attended the same high school that I had attended. He never knew that I had dated a black guy in middle school because he was 4 years older than I. About 6 months in to the relationship, he came home and told me that one of his friends that was my age told him that I had dated a black guy in middle school. My response was “so what?” I despised him after that. In my opinion, black people in general are less judgemental than whites. I have seen black men that are 5′ tall that have 2 or 3 women fighting over them. Short black men do not seem to have the “little man” syndrome that short white men have. The same goes for bald men. Black men don’t seem to have a self-esteem problem if they are bald, but white men freak out over it. I say that to express that African men, be they African immigrants or African American are not as judgemental as white men. My husband works as an electrical contractor. He tells me on the job sites that the skinniest stick woman can walk by and all of the white guys will go on and on about how good looking she is. Don’t get me wrong, by the time my husband and I got married I weighed about 120 lbs. and although he does not like skinny women, he probably would never have dated me had I been very large. I do not consider myself judgemental. I love people of all races. I have heard women make comments of other women about weight or other flaws. I just don’t notice that sort of thing about people, especially people that I care about. You could put me in a room with 20 men - 1/2 of them white and 1/2 of them black and I would probably pick a black man as a companion every time. Maybe it takes me back to that 14 year old “puppy love” feeling, who knows, but plain and simple, black men turn me on. And, just so you know, I don’t drink or do drugs, I am not what most would consider “fat” and my family loves my black husband….. it is not really tabu for me. Maybe I am an exception, but I don’t really think so.
June 28th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
@hijack323: Today everyone leaving comments has such unique first names
Perhaps you are the exception to the rules. Make no mistake about it, my opinions on this matter are not static and do evolve and change depending on what I hear about and experience. So, should I hear enough stories like yours, I will definitely write a Jungle Fever 3.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:20 am
I find this to be somewhat true..especially in the US. It is true that African/black men are naturally(most) attracted to vuluptious women, however I have seen it go waay overboard. It seems like the african/black men I see with these women are very sloppy in appearance..Most of the african men I have known will deal with these women for papers. Most black american men deal with these women because they think they are easy in all aspects(money,sex,able to walk over them).Of course I believe there are some VERY sincere relationships..howeve it is sad that this is the first thing most of us think when we see a black man with a non black female.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:35 am
@liberiangirl: Indeed, the way in which we dehumanize people from other races and communities and reduce them into nothing but means to an end (papers, cheap sex etc) is pretty sad.
It also saddens me how 6 years later, I am still yet to see an African man who hasn’t converted to the church of gangsta rap who has gotten women high up the socioeconomic ladder in Australian society.
The crude truth about that is probably than when it’s all said and done, we aren’t very high up the socioeconomic ladder in this society and have a lot of work to do: after all isn’t the women one can get usually a pretty crude measurement tool for measuring the worth of a man in society
July 30th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
This article is rubbish, I read a bit & couldn’t read anymore what a load of Tripe,
Maybe the dude should just accept he’s an ugly guy surrounded by other ugly guys & simply can’t attract pretty white girls, well thankfully I’ve not had the same sorry experience as him.
I tend to stick to a particular type, my type, that means educated, slim, proud, confident with no hidden issues or agendas (I don’t like fat girls sorry) I like girls who are progressive & ambitious, the type of girl who makes me feel proud to have on my arm, Who’s proud to have me as well, I don’t compromise my taste which it seems the writer does, I also don’t put any women up as trophies, LOL! We are all just as important, I just think the writer sounds insecure, I don’t need someone to bolster my Ego by telling me white chicks love black dick, I believe girls will love me regardless of my color & for who I am, well that attitude has always worked for me, I mean lets face it a girl with any number of these issues the guy mentions could be of any race not just white.
July 30th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
@Nomadi: Welcome to the Displaced African, you certainly came in with a whole lot of passion. If you indeed are exactly who you say you are, then you my friend are the type of people who I want to learn more from. I want to understand what you are doing that my peers are not.
I think it’s definitely because of the informal and crass language in the post, but I have been very disappointed by the discussion in this post because it seems no one so far has focussed on the final section of the post which begins
So What’s the Point? What Should We Do?
Instead people focus on the nature of the article itself or discrediting or proving the ideas within the post. I wrote that post many months ago and by this point I truly “am over” getting that message behind the post out there, I want to discuss how collectively as a people we will rise above the flaws expressed in the post.
As for my insecurity, that post can’t even begin to capture the full extent and nature of my insecurity or that of my peers, let’s work on that, let’s fix that. Let’s not just point it out and leave it at that, let’s outgrow it and move on to bigger and brighter things.
July 30th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Hello Mwangi,
Your article disappointed me, I found the article somewhat dated, it had no correlation with the world we live in today, & its far from the experience of me & many other Black men.
Its all about expectation, it appears many of the readers who agree with this article, have gone into the situation, treating white women like some type of trophy, worth more than anything else, worth more than themselves, I include Mwangi in that bracket, (If he’s who he says he is?)
If a white woman isn’t fat, on drugs or any of the above mentioned sequences by Mwangi, does this mean you achieved the ultimate, LOL!
I don’t think like this, anybody who’s parents taught them to be proud of who they are wouldn’t think like this either, I know nice, pretty girls want me just as much as I want them, regardless of color.
You ask if I’m for real, well I am, but I can ask the same of you? You might be some white racist man who’s discovered a trickish way to air a racist perception of white girls who date Black men? Because the article is in a sense demeaning to Black men & white girls/women, who prefer to date Black men (There are many) “Although I don’t say I’m into this type of white woman” I’m not, nor do I separate women by ethnicity, there are many black/Asians girls who eclipse what Mwangi would describe as a white girl who doesn’t have all the above mentioned problems.
I mean look at David Bowie, Robert De Niro & Boris Becker (All white men who prefer black girls)
This article simply talks of a stereotypical attitude many whites may have/ or want to have about white girls who date Black men, so does Mwangi!!? Have a hidden Agenda here? “The picture shows you as a black man”
I’m African my Daughter is half Tibetan, (Which makes her Mum full Asian), My current Girlfriend is (White) Russian suffice to say, both are slim & beautiful + both had never been out with Black guys prior to me, I didn’t present myself as black/or a white wannabe, (I AM BLACK) “I’m me” Its the same as an insecure dweeb relying on how racist/backward a girl might be to help snare a woman, If the white woman is not prejudiced then the white guy with the expectation his chances are better than the average black doesn’t have a clue what to say to the white woman, (They might have nothing in common)
A white man who snares a white woman on the basis he expects her to like him more because he’s white, is of cause an example of an insecure white man, this man is not depending on his attraction as a man, he’s depending on how prejudiced the girl might be, to rely on this, is kind of lame, LOL! Be yourself walk up to a woman you’ll be more likely to get her, don’t compare yourself to anyone else, stereotypes are just that, “stereotypes”
I’ve had many beautiful girls & also a few not so beautiful girls, lol! They choose me over other Black/White/Asian guys, but the choice wasn’t made on color alone, like many silly guys might think, it was made on who I am, (I’m sure I’m not unique in having a beautiful girl choose me over others)
I’ve also been to many clubs with a beautiful white girl, where there are thousands of beautiful white girls, a black guy comes in & proceeds to make a play for the one solitary white female who is with me? These men carry the same misconceptions & insecurities your article perpetuates, “that the girl likes Black men specifically & will be easier for them to approach, because each man thinks or wants to think he’s the Alpha, I never compare myself to other men, “I’m the best me” I put all my energy into that, (being me.)
Not to mention I’ve also come across white men who are convinced a white girl will choose them over any black guy/me, when this does not materialize, they walk off in a huff insinuating one or all the claims Mwangi makes. IE, the girl must have one problem or the other, I found this even more true with ethnicities like Italians, Spaniards, Greeks, Arabs & some Indians not necessarily white in London some are quite evolved, they expected the girl to go with them based on whiteness & were annoyed when this didn’t happen, & would often accuse the girl of being fucked up.
In a sense its a perception by some backward whites that there must be something wrong with a white woman who goes with a black man, LOL!
I find the stereotypes here wholly untrue, my girl has a masters Degree & like I said she’s beautiful, the only guys who come up to her, regardless of knowing she’s with me, tends to be the more insecure guys who don’t rely on who they are, but how white they are.
I disagree with the article & question its authenticity & agenda, Albeit Mwangi could be being honest (admittedly) & the scenario he describes might be found some places, but my point is I’ve not found this attitude personally, & I know many other African males who date normal white women as well, of all shapes & sizes, the same way whites find white women “all shapes & sizes”
To conclude; “What do we do about this problem” First I’ll have to disappoint in the sense that because I haven’t witnessed this so-called-problem, I don’t have a solution.
But don’t listen to stereotypes they are misleading, Man (The Norse) used to believe the world is flat, that should pretty much explain why people should think of themselves as individuals rather than define themselves by ethnicity. That advice is for black & white guys.
I know many white guys, who I’ve only seen with ugly girls, or girls who take drugs & have weight problems, so maybe the question should encompass most men rather than singling out black men.
Nomad,
July 30th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
@Nomad: Thanks for engaging me, man. You cannot know how glad I am that you took some of that indignant energy and sublimated me to engage in discussion with me, I truly appreciate that.
.
If I may ask, what is your background? How long have you been abroad? I am who I say I am, I am Mwangi so no need to worry about this being some cheap racist ploy, this blog has 180+ articles aside from this one, I think that’s way too much effort just for one article
One small distinction I should have made early on that has definitely become distinct over time is that the article refers predominantly to Africans fresh off the boat. Seriously, you have never seen this problem?
That’s fantastic! Tell me in which country you live? What’s the culture like?
July 30th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
I’m from the UK, Of West African parentage although I was born in North London, but as you can appreciate I have many Africans friends & they are just like me, with the same attitude, so they are never held back by stereotypes, In the UK we tend to blame the person for being racists not ourselves, for example I normally dismiss a girl with issues about race as “having certain problems”
If you look at many other aspects of that girls life you’ll find many of those perceptions about this type of girl are true.
For example some times I’ve had a white girl, say to me, “Why do black men prefer white girls” I put them to right in no uncertain terms, I can’t speak for all Black African men, but? Why does any woman have to be so insecure? Can’t she think I chose her not a whole race, & that I’m with her does not mean I’m with her in preference to someone else, I love all women, its strange, by a woman saying why do you prefer white women, she’s implying the guy has to do all the running, if he did then how the hell did this white girl end up in my bed? She must have done some running as well, nobody is a helpless wall flower, but like I said this scenario implies the girl is insecure & using race to bolster her ego.
I’ll add that America & Australia are not very good places to observe this type of scenario, they tend to be very insular places, the proof is in this pudding when these same girls come to a place where people are less prejudiced they blend because they don’t want to be left out.
The white American & Australian girls tend to blend when they come to London, & most people tend not to take on the problems of the average racist as their own problems, IE, A girl with racial issues tends to be described as;”She has some problems with race” These are her problems not mine or black African peoples, so why take on board anybodies problems? Be it fat girls, druggies, racists, wannabe cools, the whole shebang LOL!
Most good looking African people are viewed by some to be more exotic than a good looking person from their own ethnicity, their are too many issues here to settle with one, but its not really the way you see things Mwangi,
Like I said I no many African guys who just came to London observe the vibe & blend in.
Have to go.
Nomad.
July 30th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
I rushed my last reply, but I’ll reply in more detail later.
July 31st, 2008 at 12:02 am
@Nomadi: What I have tended to find, and you will probably appreciate this, is as much as it may seem that the article is about race I think something more key to all of this is culture. Someone who has been in the UK as long as you have will probably have very different nature of relationships from someone who has been abroad as long as I have - 6 years - as with someone who has just arrived as with someone who has been abroad for many years but has refused to assimilate culturally and socially.
I have tended to find that people who were born here or folks who have been here as long as I have or longer have infinitely higher levels of success - from a superficial standpoint only i.e. beauty, social standing of the woman etc, the deeper aspects are another story. From my experience this is simply because over time one is forced to assimilate into the host nation’s country or in your case, grows up with an understanding of all the nuances and idiosyncrasies of it.
Actually from what I have heard and my experience, Australia is probably the most open and tolerant society around. In comparing notes, whenever we engage in reductionism and try to reduce nations to simplistic characteristics, the general characteristics that come up are:
America: Big and everything is very rushed. Nice mix of people who are open and people who could care less.
The UK: Not a friendly society, people joke it’s because of the weather (NB: I only traveled to the UK when very young so can’t confirm or discredit this)
Australia: Friendly people and waaayyyyy too slow for some (personally I love the pace of life here but to each his own).
What type of relationships with white women do people your parent’s age have?
I am sorry to have so many questions, the difference in culture that occurs from living in the West for different periods of time fascinates me and since you are exactly the type of person I wrote this article to attract, your insights are super appreciated.
July 31st, 2008 at 7:18 am
I respect your point of view, but like I said, it depends on how high your expectations are & what you are willing to settle for, no one is forced to go with the type of girl they don’t really want, & like I said although I was born in the UK, I have plenty cousins & friends who’ve not been in the UK long but do not compromise themselves or conform to these stereotypes you mention. they get beautiful girls of all ethnicities, I agree with one thing, there is a degree of trial & error in the beginning, “feeling the waters so to say” but this is true of everybody (All ethnicities) who start at a point to learn about women, if the man settles with a woman who is not really the type he wants, this means he believes in the stereotypes you are perpetuating & doesn’t think he can get better.
But I don’t understand what you mean by refuse to assimilate? Assimilating does not mean “compromise your culture” you are not being asked to make a choice, you do what you are happy with, you are confusing the issue if you don’t want to assimilate why want to go out with women who aren’t your culture?
“Actually from what I have heard and my experience, Australia is probably the most open and tolerant society around” This statement is wrong, even on the basis of the way the Australians have treated their own Aboriginals even in comparison to the Maoris of New Zealand, & its well known the UK has more interracial marriages & relationships than anywhere else in the world, which would suggest Britain is much more tolerant on racial issues,
Australians may have a more laid back attitude in regards to other issues, this does not necessarily make them more tolerant of other races.
“from a superficial standpoint only i.e. beauty, social standing of the woman etc”
Again Mwangi, I think this statement applies to everyone not just blacks/Africans, there is a pecking order, but it transcends ethnicity
And you do realize that London, (UK) Is a very multicultural city, you’ll not find only English people here.
I also disagree with your analogy of America, New York is called a melting pot, but unlike London you have several different groups, IE Italian Americans, Hispanic Americans, Irish Americans, Blacks, Whites a multitude of ethnicities, but they don’t necessarily mix & tend to keep to their respective communities, many Americans will confirm this, In the UK people couldn’t care less, you’ll meet more mixed race people in the UK, than anywhere else in the world.
People in the UK, my parents age in mixed ethnicity marriages, are the same as anyone else, some good relationships some bad, its too general a question.
Mwangi lots of the things you mention are problems for all ethnicities, these issues are not specific to African men, when Turks, Indians go to a place they’ve never been they all tend to end up with the worst in the beginning, but this changes rapidly like you say, when all these people become more familiar with the territory & the landscape——–
Unless you believe this stereotype “the only type of white girls an African can get” then you won’t be inclined to go after the woman you really want.
Nomad.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:36 am
@Nomad: Can’t argue with that…makes sense. Hmmm, the only bit of it that I am still unsure about is the comparative level of openness of UK society compared with here. No doubt, since day one Aborginals here have been treated like animals but from what I have seen this harsh treatment is not extended to other minorities - except those who refuse to learn English, that drives many here bananas. Anyway long life to lead, I guess a UK trip is in order one of these days.
August 3rd, 2008 at 6:43 pm
The point is the way the Australians have treated the aboriginals with impunity, is a good indication of how they’d treat someone they consider different from them, (People they consider Inferior to them)
So they might not treat other minorities the same way they do Aboriginals (They are not in a position to, the new minorities are not so much at the mercy of the Australians) & lets face it Australia needs the extra revenue these minorities bring to Australia.
But Mwangi your last post sounds suspiciously like you are defending the prejudice shown by Australians to Aboriginals, on one hand you explain what you think is prejudice shown by Australian girls to African men, you claim only white girls with a multitude of problem go for these African settlers in the next breath you tell us the treatment of immigrants is not so bad & the Aboriginals are treated far worse, which is it? Are African men treated well or bad?
Which means the whole articles purpose is wasted if you think the treatment of Aboriginals is ok & Australia is not at all a racist country (Because they treat other immigrants better than Aboriginals).
August 4th, 2008 at 7:49 am
@Reginald Alaneme: Forgive me for a brief digression before I begin to answer your post specifically, but it has amazed me how much people have read between the lines and searched for subtext from the Jungle Fever article when ultimately the article wasn’t that deep or strategic, I mean it had some depth no doubt, but I am starting to feel that some people feel as though I am using the post to run for office or something, it’s something interesting I have found
I think there is a difference between how people act when it comes to romantic and sexual relationships, how people treat acquaintances, how people treat people in the work place and how people from one group treat people from another group in general.
Jungle Fever was an article that discussed romantic and sexual relationships. In that article, I actually didn’t talk about how African men are treated within this relationships, I simply spoke about the type of women who gravitate towards them? I have heard a lot of African men talk about how well these relationships work from them and a few lament at how badly they went for them. So to answer your question specifically, in romantic relationships, as far as I have seen and heard, African men are treated well (many times better than some of our more immature and self-centred brothers deserve to be, but another post for another day) and some are treated terribly.
Now, the way Australian society has treated Aboriginals historically and the results that is having today is quite possibly one of the most callous and barbaric things I have ever seen in my entire life. Captain Cook and his crew behaved as though they were animals hell bent on blood and Aboriginals are quite possibly the hardest hit minority I have ever met in my life, in fact I rambled incoherently about this on this post:
http://www.thedisplacedafrican.com/144/comparing-africans-with-indigenous-people-south-africans-and-african-americans/
However, me, my family, my friends and other African people have been treated very well, especially when we compare our experiences with what we have heard about in US. In fact if you visit some African forums, many Africans talk about how sad it is that we are treated so much better than Aboriginals who are sometimes treated like animals.
Is Australia a racist nation? Because of the Aboriginal situation, I agree with you entirely, the answer is hell yeah.
Hope this clarifies things.
August 12th, 2008 at 3:27 am
this is a very candid observation of what Jungle Fever truly is!
August 12th, 2008 at 6:17 am
@3N: Thanks, if you have any insights to add to all of this, please feel free.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:53 am
Hi Mwangi, I just found your site and I am enjoing it very much so. I am a WM from the USA
August 16th, 2008 at 12:57 am
@Gene: Thank you for the kind words and welcome
August 17th, 2008 at 9:24 am
Mwangi, I have experienced the white man’s dread ( to borrow from Todd Wooten, he wrote White Men Can’t Hump ). When you speak honestly about your experience, it helps me so much. I releate to those fanatsies of being “all that” to women. When I see that we are the same in that way, I can see how much we all are alike, no matter what color on the otutside. Its a shame us white dudes have been so insecure and have abussed your people because we tried to live the fantasy that we were better.
Im sure that the fantasy of a super lover causes lots of white women to want to explore with black men. I know its not just drug addicts, and fat women. It may be that women in general are more open to new things, while us guys are closed and we want to “protect” our women. Only us white guys can pass on our seeds in white women. lol. You may have those protective feelings about black women?
Anyways thanks for the great site!
September 6th, 2008 at 11:14 am
What’s up Mwangi,
I was just strolling through Google and stumbled on the above reference to my book (thanks Gene, though I don’t even know you, LOL!). The reference the gentleman made was accurate, but I believe this chapter excerpt would be much more fitting. This excerpt is from the Chapter “Once you go Black, you don’t go Back. Why?”
Keep up the good work.
Respectfully,
Todd Wooten
The author of White Men Can’t Hump (As Good As Black Men)
http://whitemencanthump.com
“Once you go Black, you don’t go Back” is hardly a Myth, because in
most cases it’s an easily confirmed reality. The reason the focus of “Once
you go Black” is primarily on White Women, is because they suffer the
harshest treatment for betting Black, and they have the hardest time going
Back. To fully appreciate these occurrences you need to look at the reasons
why women, primarily White Women, go Black to begin with. I’ve read a
lot of different viewpoints on this subject, and I’ve witnessed the turmoil
and the ups and downs firsthand. The most accurate assessment I’ve read
on this subject is from Emily Monroy, who is a guest columnist for The
InterRacial Voice and co-editor of the magazine Urban Mozaik. Ms.
Monroy’s editorial entitled InterRacial Sex examined the 3 Most Common
Stereotypes applied to White Women who stray from their herd and sleep
with men of color. Even though her stated focus was on why Whites believe
Inter-Racial dating occurs, the result was actually more about how White
Women who stray from their herd are perceived by other Whites. I still
found her editorial very compelling and very applicable to the “Once you
go Black” phenomenon. Ms. Monroy is a White Woman who only dates
men of other Races. She’s stated in her writings that she’s had a Mexican
boyfriend, a Filipino Boyfriend, and a Lebanese ex-Lover to name a few.
She also stated that:
“At this point in my life copulating with a White Man seems about as
exciting as eating Wonder Bread for breakfast (boring!!!).”
On that note, I’ll let Ms. Monroy explain how White Women are perceived
when they occasionally stray from the herd, and then I’ll explain why they
strayed from their herd and why they usually don’t return once they’ve strayed.
Emily Monroy’s 3 Most Common Stereotypes of White Women who
sleep with Men of Color:
#1 The Slut- A White Girl who willingly sleeps with a man of color is a slut
or so goes the conventional wisdom. It therefore follows that she lacks any
Sexual restraint whatsoever. In places like the Old South, such a woman
faced public whipping, indentured servitude, rejection from her family and
community, and violence from the Ku Klux Klan. Though now the legal
consequences of the slut’s behavior have disappeared, and the social ones
diminished somewhat, the Stereotypes remain.
#2 The Political Activist- The political activist is a left-wing, socially
conscious, politically correct woman, who views involvement with a non-
White Man (especially a Black) as an act of solidarity with an oppressed
group and perhaps as a means of thumbing her nose at society, and rebelling
against her family. If she and her partner have children, she is further
praised in some circles for holding the key to the future of Race relations.
But many minorities and left-wingers are skeptical of her actions. People
of color rightly doubt whether Miscegenation will really sound the death
knell for Racism, given the fact that five hundred years of Race mixing on
this continent and others hasn’t achieved that goal yet.
#3 The Ugly Duckling- The ugly duckling is a White Woman who might
not necessarily get billed as the ‘Ugliest Woman in the World’ at the circus
but who doesn’t turn heads either. In White circles, that is. As soon as she
steps out of Fortress Caucasia, she’s the belle of the ball. Men of color
shower her with attention. In The Color Complex, a Black filmmaker
humorously describes the allure of the ugly duckling: “Over the years a
group of Black Boys grew up masturbating with the White Girls in
Penthouse (adult magazine)….This caused them to go out and date
any 250-pound greasy White Woman they could find, whose only
redeeming quality was that they had blond hair, blue eyes, and White
skin.” The flipside of the ugly duckling Stereotype is the implication that
she goes out with men of color because she’s not good enough. If she were,
she could do better (i.e., catch a White Man). Most Stereotypes are ways
of simplifying complex behavior so that it’s easier to understand.
Anti-miscegenists can explain away the White Woman who consorts
with men of color by saying that she’s immoral (the slut), that she’s caught up
in hopelessly Utopian ideals (the political activist), or that we don’t want her
anyway (the ugly duckling). But in real life things aren’t so clear-cut. True,
some White female partners of minority men might be seeking a Sexual
adventure, trying to fight Racism, or turning to Inter-Racial romance for
lack of any other choice. But most of these women have simply found the
right person who, as one White Woman interviewed in The Color Complex
reported, happens to be another color. As with fornication, adultery, and
promiscuity, a double standard exists around Inter-Racial Sex. A White
Woman involved with a man of color commits the cardinal sin of allowing
an “Other” male to enter her vagina, whereas a White Man who sticks
his private parts into those of non-White Women draws little criticism as
long as his relationships don’t get too serious. White society’s outrage over
Miscegenation has less to do with the purity of the European gene pool
than with that of the Caucasian Female reproductive system.
Ms. Monroy tells it like it is and it’s hard to disagree with one word.
There’s just one more thing I’d like to add to her 3 Most Common Stereotypes.
What I’m about to add is not a Stereotype, but more importantly, it’s the
common bond of her 3 Most Common Stereotypes.
#4 The Unsatisfied- The unsatisfied woman lives within each of Ms.
Monroy’s 3 Most Common Stereotypes.
The Slut is obviously unsatisfied and is certainly searching for
something. A White Woman can immediately earn the title of slut for
sleeping with one Black Man. At the same time, many promiscuous White
Women don’t earn the title of slut for sleeping with numerous White Men.
Is it fair to label a White Woman a slut if she’s slept with numerous White
Men and was unsatisfied, and then strayed from her herd one time?
The Political Activist is obviously unsatisfied and is certainly searching
for something. There are a lot of things you can do to fight Racism and
spreading your legs is not one of them. And just to add to Ms. Monroy’s
comment about The Political Activist deciding to have a Bi-Racial baby.
If the Political Activist decides to have a Black Man’s baby it has nothing
to do with making a political statement. If the Political Activist decides to
have a Black Man’s baby it’s because she was hooked on the pipe. I’m not
talking about the ‘crack pipe’ either.
The Ugly Duckling; I can’t even type that shit without laughing.
Every Black Man knows another Black Man who has a White Woman who
could fall into that category. That shit about masturbating to Penthouse
Magazine is absolutely true. Penthouse, Playboy and eventually Hustler
is what most men my age grew up with. You rarely (if ever) seen Black
Women in those publications. The first time I saw a Black Woman in an
adult magazine was in my Grandfather’s copy of Chunky Asses (he was
well over the age of 70 at the time). This magazine featured Women of all
Races, and none were less than 300 lbs. The Ugly Duckling is obviously
unsatisfied and is also searching for something.
You can label these women with any Stereotype you like, but the
bottom line is, they weren’t satisfied with their herd, so they decided to
stray. Usually satisfaction or lack thereof, plays a major role with these
women. They are either emotionally unsatisfied, Sexually unsatisfied, or
both. Why White Men get pissed off over this shit I’ll never know. When a
White Woman strays from the herd, White Men have no one to blame but
themselves. Just like Black Men have no right to complain when a beautiful,
educated, Black Woman is in the arms of a White Man. Black Women
routinely have to tip-toe through a minefield of Black Men. That minefield
consists of men who are Dogs, Players, Unemployed, Incarcerated, Gay/
on the Down Low or HIV Positive. Other ethnic groups have many of the
same problems; it’s just magnified with Black Folks because there’s a
growing shortage of good Black Men. Black Men who don’t fall into any
of the above categories are considered a “Hot Commodity,” and take full
advantage of the Clean-Cut Brother Shortage. White Guys help their cause
by being selfish spoiled babies.
September 28th, 2008 at 3:13 am
It was interesting reading your post. I’ve seen instances of the stereotype, I won’t deny it. This was when I spent a year in the US (Connecticut). I’m not labeling Americans as “worse” than Canadians (ie such as myself)- what i’ve noticed is the different genetic backgrounds between Americans and Canadians: this was pretty much the only place I was around black people. Where I’m from in Canada (and to where I have returned) every now and again I’ll see black men but it’s just when I go to the city, and even then, the ratio has to be less than 1 in 100. In my home town, the is not one black person. I still grew up aware of the male gangster stereotype and big c&&k rep via TV. Somehow I though it was all BS. I guess I don’t take the media that seriously, but it would also have a lot to do with the amount of exposure I’ve had. Anyway, my concept of blacks was pretty much that they were a minority and simply because of this, they had a battle to face socioeconomically. But that was it. When I think of black men, I think of a taller person (because they were taller in CT, which is probably not the case everywhere), muscular (again, because they were, ON AVERAGE, more muscular than Caucasians), and black. Between that and the fact that they have an undeserved battle to face, I honestly don’t think I perceive anything beyond that. Do I think black men are attracted to the women in that pic? Hell no. But from what I saw, there was some truth the the 5 stereotypes you listed.
Anyhow, I went out with Reg, a black guy when I was there and he was absolutely gorgeous. Had an English degree as well. And he was sooooo sweet. In essence, on hell of a catch. It was interesting because when I told my roommates that I was going out with a black guy, they told me I was putting myself in danger and not to go near him. I didn’t get it. It worried me a little because they all shared the same opinion and I was the only one without experience living with blacks, but I still kept seeing Reg. Well, he is a gem and they couldn’t have been more wrong. Anyhow, in short, I grew up in a pretty remote area, and while I was aware of the stereotypes, they didn’t stick. I was like any person: looking for a caring, smart, cute partner. And Reg happened to fit the category. And he was black. It didn’t go deeper than that. Don’t know what my point is- guess I just wanted to share my experience because while I did appreciate the post, it has not been my experience at all.
By the way, I’m 5′4, 112 pounds, have an honors psychology degree, and think I’m a bit of a catch myself
September 28th, 2008 at 3:39 am
And by the way, the post above mine makes me want to cry because of the truth to it: there are few pics of black women in “men’s magazines”. This is so obviously due to stereotypes- the most attractive women are black. Five years after I moved back to Canada, I married a phenomenal white guy. But he agrees with me too (which initially hurt a bit when he agreed with my opinion, I will admit!). And it’s also true that there’s more poverty, drugs, etc in the black community. That’s also due to white racism and blacks’ internalizing the stereotypes. I’m so sad to admit that this is the case. As a woman, I get so mad when I see women in mags (women and men’s) where they are anorexic, in submissive poses, objectified in the sense that they are used for aesthetic purposes, not recognized for anything beyond their looks, and are also not represented unless they are within the top 2% of looks and under 30 (or have had enormous surgery to look under 30). Hence the vast majority of white women’s low self esteem (of normal looks, not just the ones we discriminate, above).So I can imagine that a similar experience, but compounded, would be so damaging. It hurts me to see- it must really suck to live it. All I can tell myself is that like the woman’s movement, the black movement is happening, albeit slowly. People just can’t relax, especially at the critical point where they could do, since their situation has increased enough to be tolerable (but is still undesirable).
September 28th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
@JoAanna: Hey,
Thank you so much for sharing your story with me. I think reactions such as your stories, combine with the various stories, insults and thanks I have had hurled my way have definitely convinced me that this is a topic area that needs its own separate place to be discussed in depth.
One thing though stuck in my mind about your story. Your friends kept warning you about dating a black man. Few questions:
1) A black man as in African man or African American man or Afro-latino man or all of us bunched together? And if Africans, were they talking about a specific country like Kenya, Nigeria, Ethiopia, South Africa etc etc etc?
2) What did they think was dangerous about dating one?
3) Had they dated one in the past?
4) What were their races? Were they all Caucasian?
October 1st, 2008 at 6:41 am
Wonderful story JoAnna. I applaud your courage and open-mindedness. There’s a new documentary entitled “Interracial Dating in America: Uncovered” (available on Amazon.com) which covers every aspect of Black and White relationships. This documentary features the views of White Women, Black Men, White Men, and Black Women. It then takes the stereotype debate one step further by showing members of each of the groups I just listed, but with opposing views, i.e., Black Women who date interracially and why, and then Black Women who deplore interracial dating and why.
As a nation, America has come a long way. You don’t have to look any further than the candidacy of Barack Obama to realize this, but this documentary is proof that we still have a long way to go.
Peace,
Todd Wooten
The author of
White Men Can’t Hump (As Good As Black Men)
October 10th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Dear Mwangi,
I just found this post tonight while trying to search for different perspectives on relationships between African men and white women. Information in detail about relationships between the two which would provide a different source of insight on the topic.
What I was looking for and will continue to search; is for a perspective where an African man and a white woman who have made a long term relationship between the two cultures work and why. It would also be interesting to hear about why they haven’t worked/ won’t.
The fact that humanity is divided by dynamics of gender, ethnicity/culture, experience & socioeconmics; it seems that anything is possible depending on the variables of the situation. Years ago, my best friend was in a paper marriage with a African man and I have also known persons in relationships with the unfaithful African partner. Stories from other peoples experiences which have perpetuated the negative sterotypes.
I guess what I’m wondering is; Have you ever known anyone who has
been in a long lasting relationship between a African man and a white woman? Is it possible? (I did read all the posts and understand that Katherine was in a relationship with a African man but for all I know she could have met him two weeks prior.) From this blog, my guess would be no. Yet, I will not assume that is the answer. Your a wonderful writer, I might add- I’ll be reading more.
October 10th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
@lovesculture: As I said in the comments above, in my exuberance to write an article (this was one of the first articles I ever wrote and I was in a beautiful writing frenzy when I wrote my first few artcles), I forgot to make a very important caveat:
The article above refers to two types of African people - people who are fresh off the boat either physically or still fresh off the boat mentally.
Speaking as someone who came in my mid-teens and has seen people who have assimilated (such as some of my friends) culturally and people who have not assimilated (such as myself) into the culture of the land, the realities are entirely different.
Because of the cultural match, there are many black men, black teens, black men who have great relationships with white women. In fact, one of my mother’s best friends has a son who has a wonderful great relationship with a white person.
So, yes the relationships do exist, especially for people who come to the new country in their mid-teens or below, for the fresh off the boats, that’s much more tricky because:
Forget what the hype says, to assimilate into your culture, you must discard either elements or the entirety of your previous culture
All this stuff about preserving your old culture while assimilating for the most part is B.S. (I did say for the most part, so there are wonderful exceptions).
Some quick meandering thoughts, hope that helps.
October 13th, 2008 at 3:27 am
@Todd Wooten: I forgot to say welcome to tDA and thanks for the nice long comments and sharing your ideas. Hope they are of use to other readers of this article.
October 16th, 2008 at 9:40 am
well my aim over here is that i need a white woman to get married with ?
October 16th, 2008 at 11:08 am
@daniel: If you are joking, that’s hilarious. However, if you are serious that out of all the things on this Earth you could want, your sole goal is to marry a white woman, then depending on your intention behind that, might be a good thing or might be a very sad thing. I don’t know. I would have to know more I guess………..
November 4th, 2008 at 4:20 am
Hello Mwangi..awesome blog. like you, i used to be a Melbourne guy (for 3 yrs). i’ve just skimmed through some of the posts here, and i agree totally with regards to IR dating in Australia (it seems like we both see through the same lens). i will post my thoughts later about this, but for now, let me say that I have been to the USA via London and what i witnessed in the Northern hemisphere is different with regards to IR dating. i did not see any brothers with ‘kilogrammically’ challenged women whilst in London. I have had cousins and uncles who like me have studied outside Africa, and from their experiences and their observations whilst overseas, it seems to me like us Africans who’ve lived in Australia have gotten the short end of the straw..if you want beautiful, slim but curvaceous, educated (or at least intelligent), cultured white women, Europe seems to be the place…I’ve witnessed this myself…my cousin is now married to a beautiful Swedish woman who studied medicine with him whilst he was over in Sweden (he even speaks the language since it’s a prerequisite to study over there). from the stories of his travels to Hungray, Slovenia, Russia, Norway and other countries that are not used to black people, dating the women of your dreams is not far fetched at all!!..you don’t have to be spectacular like tiger Woods, Obama or Kofi Annan..even ordinary African guys like us can be successful if we just show a bit of courtesy, intelligence, ambition, open-mindedness, etiquette, good upbringing, etc..l8r man..rock on!
November 4th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
@nkosi: Thank you for coming and sharing some constructive forward moving thoughts. What you described sounds fantastic. Though you understand I must be wary of investing in fools good before I see it in my own eyes.
After all, my libido and my ego were boosted sky high before coming to Oz and we all know how that came.
If what you are saying is true though, there might be some archetypes in Europe worth finding, drawing out and presenting to everyone else on forums such as this one……….
November 16th, 2008 at 12:26 am
hi mwangi
well firstly thanks for a thought provocative blog! i’m actually a white aussie woman now living in london. i worked as a teacher with adult african students for many, many years in australia & now i find myself living in london & dating an african man for the first time…so i guess i can try & see the land from both sides of the fence as it were!
i perhaps fit one of your stereotypes in that yes i am a curvy (but not obese) woman but my kenyan partner is more than happy with that & was one of the reasons he was attracted to me in the first place. and yes, i think african men can use a lot of ’sweet’ talk…but this is ok if it’s followed up with genuine action & respect.
i do feel that despite all the race problems in the uk, that it is more tolerant here particularly in the big cities- my partner & i can walk down the street holding hands without so much as a glance as there are many, many inter-racial couples here. australia on the other hand, whilst being a laid back relaxed place to live is i feel quite racist in many ways with lots of narrow-minded attitudes…and i say that as an australian sadly.
i have always dated men from different cultures than my own (middle easterm croatian etc) & have friends from many different backgrounds & have lived in other cultures as well, so i’m a great believer in cross-cultural relationships & friendships as one of the ways forward to tolerance & harmony. that may sound a little idealistic i know but understanding others who are ‘different’ than us really is necessary to breakdown steroptypes & hopefully challenge racism.
i think some of your blog statements may be right…but i also believe that there are enough people in the world enjoying successful cross-cultural/interracial relationship