Here’s Why Everybody Should be a Polygamist

A man and his two wives

The Great Polygamy Debate

A couple of you wanted me to get a discussion started on this and I wanted to discuss this and so here we are. I want to get some great back and forth and so I will take the unpopular position and try to make the case for polygamy. I know there are many of you who read this site and have never left a comment. Make this the post where you leave your first comment and let me know your thoughts on the polygamy debate.

(NB: Keep the debate, positive and constructive. Remember it’s better to say nothing than say something that tears other folks down

ii) In case I can’t create an excuse to do so, make sure you read Kelly’s post on African marriages. It’s so true, so sad and sets the context for this post a little bit.)

Point Number One: A Rebuttal

I know one of the main arguments that will be brought up against polygamy is:

It’s a selfish, barbaric practice that only exists to satisfy the man. Whereas women who exist under polygamy have to endure jealousy and constantly fighting for the man’s attention and resources, the man can happily live with the daily ego boost of going in and out of his wives’ homes as he pleases. Under monogamy, the woman doesn’t have to fight for attention and has the full attention of the man in a mutually loving and nurturing relationship.


Interracial polygamy

Let’s Separate the Ideal from the Reality

Ideally, under monogamy, we have a mutually loving relationship, based on friendship and trust that is mutually nurturing and satisfying to both parties. The reality on the ground is much different.

The Male Seed Wholesaler

First of all, from a very young age, there will be a 20% of men who sleep with 80% of the women. This is not an exact science but I think once I made this point, a lot of you can see that it’s true. Whether it’s the local or international celebrity or the most charming and eligible bachelors in the city, or the rich businessman, there will be that collection of men who will bed more women over the course of their life, than the other 80% combined.

These men tend to have the wonderful gift of being able to take women to emotional and orgasmic highs that the other men can’t seem to do. As a result, women are willing to jeopardize a lot in pursuit of this ultimately unattainable man.

This monogamy arrangement actually works out very favorably for these men because they can bed single women, engaged women and married women (don’t even act like this doesn’t happen very often) all over the place and thanks to contraception NEVER HAVE TO SHOULDER THE RESPONSIBILITY because the society is arranged in such a way that every adult male and female are responsible for their actions with no safety nets to protect the women.

African wedding dancers

What Polygamy Offers

What polygamy basically offers these women is accountability and security. More often than not, the “20% men” tend to be the most economically successful and most able to shoulder the responsibility of taking care of large numbers of people. The man can’t just hop from wife to wife to wife without ever having to shoulder the responsibilities for her upkeep. I am not just talking about a few thousand dollars in child support in case the man slips up one night. The man, with the support of the rest of his family can go out there, find a woman,bring her into his fold and take care of her and her children for the rest of their lives.

This will bring down the currently skyrocketing single parent household rate.

Point Number 2: The Male Nature

Finally, as I have said previously, polygamy appears to be the best way for a man to somewhat stay true to his nature in a manner that upholds his dignity, the dignity of the community and the dignity of his wife (ves) and children. Men, have been accused left, right and center of constantly being aroused by the latest, cute thing in a skirt even when they have a perfectly loving and nurturing relationship.

Gorgeous picture

As one looks around the world, one can’t help but think that perhaps the man’s proclivity to always pursue the next beautiful woman isn’t just an anomaly but rather the way that he is naturally designed. So, why not stay true to this nature in a manner that is sanctioned by all the major religions of the world?

The Discussion is Way More Important than the Article in this Case

I think I will stop it there and see what discussion develops. The discussion is polygamy: give your two cents about it. Remember, keep it positive! We want some useful information to come out of this debate. Make sure you click in the small white box at the bottom of the comment box when you leave a comment so you can receive emails whenever new comments are left and stay a part of this debate.

Be blesd and bles othaz,
Mwangi



110 Comments

  • By -jim-, June 17, 2008 @ 12:43 pm

    Come back down to earth man. At this point in time, it is impossible to share love. Polygamy in the modern world is not compatible.
    When you say polygamy, do you also mean a woman with two husband?

  • By Mwangi, June 17, 2008 @ 12:53 pm

    @jim: Hey Jimmy how was the weekend? Now to the debate……….
    By polygamy I am referring to one man with multiple women. If we are talking about reality, the number of polygamist cultures has always outnumbered monogamous ones and still does so today http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy#Polygamy_worldwide (check out their source for the data)
    First of all, as I have said in the past, I think marrying for love is a very foolish thing to do because what happens when the love dies…..you’ll leave, blaming the other person for “emotionally draining you” when it was you who went in like a consumer to suck all the love out of them. Just like in family, I think unless you can make a commitment that isn’t based on temporary, fleeting emotions, you will leave. But I digress………….
    I don’t know why people talk about sharing of love being impossible….are you trying to tell me its impossible for one person to love more than one person, isn’t love the only emotion that grows every time its expressed?

  • By Leeban, June 17, 2008 @ 1:44 pm

    Totally agree Mwangi.

  • By Mwangi, June 17, 2008 @ 2:11 pm

    @Leeban: Didn’t expect that…..Thanks :D

  • By spicebear, June 17, 2008 @ 4:35 pm

    this is an interesting discussion, though a bit one sided. seems to me that instead of the title being ‘why everybody should be a polygamist” it should be ” we should practice polygamy because men are going to cheat anyway and women should settle now otherwise their chance will pass them by and they will be disappointed.”

    don’t get me wrong, i am not against polygamy. whatever rocks an individuals boat then far be it from me to tell them how to live their lives. as long as no one is strong armed into it or bullied to stay in the situation then more power to them. lakini truth be told, the way our grand parents and great grand parents experienced polygamy is not the same way that we in the new milenium do.

    just like dowry and other rites like birth and death rituals have been sullied as time goes by so has polygamy. a man is less likely to discuss wanting a second wife with his first wife and his family (as was the norm back in the day) and chances are he will just go ahead and run around and hope to keep things on the downlow until he dies or is found out and then he says “i couldn’t help it, you see? its the libido darling, deal with it.”

    i am hesitant to paint all men with one brush, that they just can’t control themselves and thus should be allowed to sow their seeds hugh heffner style till they keel over and die. some just can’t deal with the emotional and financial hassle and do try to honour their vows. others take the easy way out and cheat on their wives, thats a given. but men (and women, for that matter) are not a monolith that act and react in the same way to any given situation.

    when you talk about all the men who cheat on their wives, it makes me wonder if we should talk about why they act the way they do and whether marriage as it is stifles them. maybe they shouldn’t get married at all. or they could opt for open marriages maybe, i dunno. seems a much more plausible discussion to have than to dust off polygamy and tell women its their safety net with that ominous “or else” left dangling in the air.

    as i said before, polygamy back in the day is not polygamy as it is now. then a whole lot of thought and discussion went into it, it wasnt just a matter of a man who liked to sleep around. now, its more of a dude telling (if she is lucky) mama watoto that there is another wife, take it or leave it or not even bothering to inform her he had another family or ndogo ndogo, she would find out when he died.

    in this day and age, there is alot of jealousy between “wives”. there is resentment because resources are going to another woman and family that you barely know. and yes, it does smack of the man wanting to have to eat their cake and eat it too and being able to put it down to his wandering eye. it does frighten many women because let us not forget, AIDS is real. lets separate the ideal (for men) from reality.

    for every woman i meet who wouldnt mind being the nth wife, there are many others who just will not share. maybe guys who are after a real relationship that entails polygamy should look for the former. guys who are looking for a quick lay should just grow up.

    lol, pole for the looong post, but what can i say? its my insomnia :-)

  • By Mwangi, June 17, 2008 @ 4:57 pm

    @spicebear:
    Nah, mini posts are more than welcome, they keep the debate healthy. The type of polygamy that I was describing in the post above was old school polygamy which was thought through and discussed.
    You are right that at the core of my whole polygamy debate is something that’s very unfair and honestly doesn’t really make much sense if we are indeed beautifully and wonderfully made , I honestly think that most men not only can’t control themselves but don’t know how.
    But this polygamy debate does bring to light something that is also pretty rotten about monogamous Western cultures and I guess people in general, which I mentioned when talking to Jimmy: people approach marriage from a very selfish-what-will-it-bring-to-me mentality.
    This, as has been often repeated means that the man will creep out whenever he wants to whether polygamous or monogamous.
    The woman also views the man as “her property” which she doesn’t want to share with anyone…..and who is meant to give her all his attention as opposed to approaching it from a selfless, what can I give to him/her mentality.
    Darn it, couldn’t write anything longer than you spicebear, I was hoping to eclipse your mini-post.

  • By spicebear, June 17, 2008 @ 5:49 pm

    uhm, am i missing something here? just as the woman will not share, most men i know would froth at the mouth at the very thought of a woman stepping out on him. they would absolutely not stand for it and promptly wash their hands off her and it would be drama galore.

    and both sexes are selfish. isn’t it selfish of a man to want a woman (or women) to keep his house, raise his chidren, remain faithful to him, be there through the good and bad times, satisfy his sexual urges and ontop of that tolerate another woman who is usurping time, money and affection from her man? marriage is a give and take situation. human beings are not mother theresa’s in the making. being a doormat and pining away while you give your all in a relationship and getting nothing back is a notion that belongs in a soap opera story line and not in real life in my honest opinion.

    and i need to call bullshit on men not being able to control themselves. as i see it, if they truly did want variety all the time then they should not get married. it is extremely selfish to tie a woman down and then continue a bachelor lifestyle at her expense and then blame your private parts. men can control themselves cos they have standards. there are certain women a man would not feel inclined to get physical with because she is not their type or whatever. i am yet to meet a man (lets disregard the rapists here) who said he performed coitus with every human female with a vagina with no regard for age, what turns him on, body type, whether she is willing or not, without a condom, whether she is a stinky crack addict sleeping on the sidewalk … see where im going with this? the issue of no control is only brought up when the conditions are ripe and to his advantage. until i meet such a man with no standards and a proclivity for STD’s, i call shenanigans.

    also, its a little wierd for a dude to commit to a long term relationship (we are talking children, planning for retirement, till one or the other keels over and dies kind of thing) just for the sex. a bit much, isn’t it? what happens when he can’t get it up anymore? after all, a dude’s sexual peak is in his 20’s. when he fikas middle age will he let them go out and get some of that good loving that he cant give anymore or will he stock up on the viagra and pray for strength?

    whatever is wrong with marriage polygamy is not the answer, at least not in this day and age. the “ideal polygamist” (lol) and what he would do in having multiple wives and families to support is a far cry from the dude who just wants to hump with no repercussions.

    and dude, i am known for being long winded and unable to summarise at the best of times. good luck trying to beat my record!

  • By Kelly, June 17, 2008 @ 6:23 pm

    Woman’s point of view: The way I see it, if my man will cheat on me anyways (this is a 99% thing). Now, from experience, chances are, even if he cheats on me, I won’t leave him based on this alone, especially if he’s a good husband in all other respects (see my post on that).

    In that case, isn’t it a lesser evil for the other woman to do her share in the arrangement?
    I don’t want her having all the good parts while I do the dirty work, take care of the man, his kids, his dirty socks etc, while she gets to ‘enjoy’ the guy with no responsibilities.
    Of course the arrangement has to be clearly discussed, like what competencies, especially financial, does she bring into the mix, and other such issues, but I think it would work.

    I don’t have to love the other woman, I just need to tolerate her, as long as she also has the right attitude…
    To me it’s a matter of considering which is the lesser evil, and how much I love the man.

    By the way, it’s possible for a man to love even 5 women truly and completely…I don’t understand it, but i’ve seen it work.

    Now, the likelihood of me accepting this arrangement, or even getting married is quite slim, but if it’s either another woman, or my family breaks down, polygamy all the way…

    Now, lets hear the low self esteem etc comments :)

  • By Kelly, June 17, 2008 @ 6:28 pm

    Sorry I mixed myself up at the beginning. I meant, chances are, if I get married, there is a 99% chance that the dude will cheat, and experience has shown even if he does I won’t leave him…

  • By Caustic Blonde, June 17, 2008 @ 6:40 pm

    If a man is going to cheat he is going to cheat whether or not he has a hundred wives or one. Having multiple wives will not cure a cheater.

    You kind of lost me on the first part of the article, but let me see if I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that men who are Polygamist are somehow more responsible because they are Polygamist as opposed to the guy who goes out and beds every woman he can? Are you saying this is a way for these type of men to be considered legitimate or moral for lack of a better term?

  • By midnitePreacher, June 17, 2008 @ 6:49 pm

    Mr.Mwangi, I agree with you,there is nothing wrong with polygamy. Truly speaking, it is hard for men to stay, satisfied , with one wife,either he goes public and lead a polygamy life or got caught red handed like the likes of Bill Clinton and company.Someone said”It is of interest to note that many, non-Muslim as well as Muslim, countries in the world today have outlawed polygamy. Taking a second wife, even with the free consent of the first wife, is a violation of the law. On the other hand, cheating on the wife, without her knowledge or consent, is perfectly legitimate as far as the law is concerned! What is the legal wisdom behind such a contradiction? Is the law designed to reward deception and punish honesty? It is one of the unfathomable paradoxes of our modern ‘civilized’ world.” see the link for further reading
    Modern Religion Article

  • By Kelly, June 17, 2008 @ 6:50 pm

    @Caustic, I hear you on the serial cheater thing, but I think Mwangi was writing in response to the phenomenon that has become so prevalent, especially in Kenya. A man dies, and around three other women come up with the guy’s children and all, claiming to be his wives ( I hope that’s what you meant Mwangi).
    Nice men will cheat with one two other women, they’re not serial..

    To me, instead of having these other families turn up after a man is dead, it’s better to know about it before hand. Actually, it kinda lets off the pressure on me to bear more than one child…lol
    Ok, I’m never getting married!

  • By meek meek, June 17, 2008 @ 7:02 pm

    You guys can go round in circles. I will just speak for myself. i agree with both sides of every argument you guys can come up with…but i think when it comes to polygamy its easier said than done. I think this is one of those decisions you can only make by yourself… I dont think its fair to have a collective opinion on this because every person deals with this differently. Some women think they will be ok but they eventually end up getting destroyed by jealousy and some think that they would never be able to live through it and they get through it just fine. Some men think its ‘cool’ until thy cant handle their wives and they lose everything and some handle it just fine balancing their wives perfectly with no favorism. Its all up to the individuals involved. My two cents! now im off to sleep.

  • By Mwangi, June 17, 2008 @ 7:25 pm

    Oh, grasshopper, no one can beat me in long meandering mini-posts. No one!

    In my opinion, I think unconditional giving and continual willing to compromise is a must in relationships. Sure everyone will have their cannot be negotiated areas, but I think unless you are entering a union for life to give without always expecting something in return, you will be severley disappointed at some point…..can you imagine if everyone in Africa took this view to family? How many would have fallen apart by now?

    No doubt polygamy is very much in favour of the man, but as it stands, outside of the West so is monogamy because dudes still step out on their wives, at least here there is some form of OPEN obligation to her and her kids.

    I am not saying a man wants to hump everything. Make no mistake about it, he can’t hump anything, but a man is easily turned on and most men once turned on must find a release……hence a porn industry that is bigger than the music, video game and movie industries combined (go to Alexa.com, which ranks the top websites on Earth and you might be shocked by just how much porn is on there in all the different countries). In short, a man must find a way to deal with the fact that he will lust after women daily. That’s just the way it is. Sure there are cultural elements involved but unless men are taught from young how to sublimate etc etc they must find an expression for this sexuality. A lot of women must engage in the act first before they like it and get hooked, dudes wake up one morning with a hard on and that’s it….they’re hooked for life. Makes the cocaine industry look like kindergarten.

    Part of this whole visual thing as far as I can tell is that we fall in lust and love at the same time very often. Hence the obsessions we develop with girls we see but hardly know. So though indeed a lot of the time its just lust, a lot of dudes kinda fall in love the very first time they see a woman.

    But we are Westerners&Westernized and we enter into relationships looking for someone to satify our needs as opposed to continuing on a legacy or take care of someone or anything like that so no doubt a lot about what I am suggesting is ridiculous when measured against the way we were raised.

    I understand if this is incoherent to most, very stream of consciousness that was.

  • By Mwangi, June 17, 2008 @ 7:28 pm

    @Kelly: Good way of summarizing it. Indeed, I think the chances of my getting a wife with, yeah girl you and me will have many wives and kids together in cosmopolitan Africa are rather slim.

  • By spicebear, June 17, 2008 @ 7:29 pm

    i think caustic blonde’s comment has gotten to the gist of what i was trying to say in a (very) round about way. is the cure for infidelity a polygamous arrangement? because what i understood from what you posted is that men who cheat would be served much better if they had multiple wives and that this is somehow a “good” thing for women specifically and for society as a whole. in my view, that defeats the whole purpose of polygamy. basically you are trying to make a case for the booty call within a long term relationship or am i getting it wrong?

  • By Mwangi, June 17, 2008 @ 7:31 pm

    @Caustic: I am saying that under polygamy this man is openly accountable and responsible for his actions in that he has to consider the effects that every women he gets involved with will have on his family and also has to take care of her and her family should they enter into a relationship. Of course the polygamy I am discussing is polygamy being practiced by some men with integrity….men who want to stay true to their families but still have a constantly wandering eye and don’t want it to destroy their family.

    Hmmm, is that true? If a man has a legitimate way to bring extra women into the fold that he will continue to lie to his wife and family? I don’t think most people would do that. Why would you do that when you can do it in the open?

  • By Mwangi, June 17, 2008 @ 7:33 pm

    @Kelly: Yeah, that was one of the points that I was getting across…..that there is honesty instead of the millions of secret affairs that currently take place.

  • By Mwangi, June 17, 2008 @ 7:35 pm

    @meek meek: Indeed, I really want to go round meeting folks who are living or have lived polygamy just to get a taste for it and see if it can really work.

    To all folks who have shared stories with me thus far thanks

  • By Mwangi, June 17, 2008 @ 7:38 pm

    @spicebear: What I am proposing is that perhaps the rate of infidelity is high because its trying to box a man into a way of life that goes against his nature. So I’m not saying that polygamy is the cure for infidelity….I am saying that infidelity is as a result of a deeper issue and that perhaps that issue is that a man by nature wants to be and easily can be with more than one woman.
    In addition to that, the way things are happening right now, there is way too little accountability and something that at least old school relationships had, though my lord the sexism and abuse were high, was accountability and respect for the strength and continuity of the family and community.

  • By Mwangi, June 17, 2008 @ 7:42 pm

    @midnitePreacher : Welcome to the tDA comments thread. Thanks for a fantastic contribution and most of all you have provoked me with one question:

    It is of interest to note that many, non-Muslim as well as Muslim, countries in the world today have outlawed polygamy. Taking a second wife, even with the free consent of the first wife, is a violation of the law. On the other hand, cheating on the wife, without her knowledge or consent, is perfectly legitimate as far as the law is concerned! What is the legal wisdom behind such a contradiction?

    BY THE WAY, SOMEONE ANSWER THAT ONE FOR ME. WHAT’S UP WITH THAT?!

    This one reeks of backdoor politics and a polygamist society somewhere sometime that was affecting the economic interests of some Western power.
    Thanks for the article, it’s a great read.

  • By Kelly, June 17, 2008 @ 7:57 pm

    That issue of outlawing polygamy is plain hypocrisy, just like we have in the church (hope kenya fm doesn’t kill me for this..lol), whats the point in outlawing polygamy, then have men running around bearing children all over? Where does it say God hates polygamy?IMO, polygamy was discouraged because of the issues it brought forth, not because of the sin aspect.
    Anyways, thats a debate for another day.

    In this issue, all I can add is, first it takes a very generous man to pull this off. You have to have the ability to love all your wives totally and completely, and keep them in love with you at all times. Actually I find it ironical when people say that the polygamist is selfish. Do they realise the amount of effort the man would have to put to keep these women happy? A real polygamist has to be generous and gifted.

    It also takes a very strong woman, because, ideally, you have to love your step children like your own, and at the very least, tolerate your co wives… All in all, it’s workable.
    Sorry for the thou comments, just that this is one of my favorite topics.

  • By Mwangi, June 17, 2008 @ 8:00 pm

    @Kelly: Don’t let me stop you, don’t save debate for another day, keep it going………..

    I have asked this question a few times on and offline: Show me where polygamy is condemned in the Bible……..I’ll wait…..
    So we go through Jesus great grand folks of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David who all were practicing polygamists….actually check out the modern religion article above for a better explanation of this.
    It would be a great deal of work if a man chose to be a polygamist with some integrity especially if the wives didn’t like each other.
    I would absolutely love to hear the history of how polygamy became first of all unpopular in the West and secondly illegal.I am sure the story will be an amazing one.

  • By Caustic Blonde, June 17, 2008 @ 8:15 pm

    @Mwangi, it seems to me that this article is geered towards saying polygamy is the best option for everyone so the man won’t cheat. I don’t think this is the angle you should use to try and convince people that polygamy is the way to go. I am not so sure that polygamy first came about as a result of a man cheating and everyone got together said,”Ok, let’s allow men to have more than one wife, this way we can cure infidelity.” I don’t know, call me crazy, but I just don’t think that is the reason it came about. It seems to me that allowing a man to marry more than one woman so he won’t cheat is an appeasement and an appeasement rarely turns out good. There would have to be more substance to the relationship(s) in order for something like this to work. I agree that it would take a man with great integrity to make something like this work. I also think the same man would be able to make a marriage work if he had one wife or ten. In closing, polygamy is not something I would entertain the idea of doing, but to each his own. You have sold short the idea of polygamy by justifying it with a defect (infidelity), I would like to learn other , much more sound reasons that polygamy is the way to go. :)

  • By spicebear, June 17, 2008 @ 8:25 pm

    so, in summary, polygamy should be used to preemt cheating?

    im confused as to what your argument here is. on one hand, you say that mens sexual urges cant be controlled and an outlet for that would be lots and lots of action to release all this pent up frustration. on the other you talk about polygamy being a long term thing with lots of responsibility. lust does not a relationship make. is the whole aim to give men variety in terms from who they can sleep with for the sake of this alleged marital integrity you speak of? i still say that getting married just for the sex is a piss poor reason to do so, and anyone who does that really needs to reevaluate why they are doing so.

    as you said, sexism and abuse was rife (and still is) when it comes to polygamy. from where i stand, it’s like you are suggesting all that should be put aside and women told to put their wants and needs aside cos a guy cant wait till he gets home to have sex with his wife. the reason the status quo changed was because not all women wanted to be one of many. we cant turn back time to the “good old days” minus all the bad stuff, cos the bad stuff is still around and yet to be dealt with.

    in my view, guys who want multiple wives can go right ahead and do so. there are many cases where a man marries teh first wife and (with her consent) considers himself married to the subsequent ones even without getting the government to cosign it. and im very happy for the governments in general to keep out of my sex life thank you very much. policing of what people do in the bedroom reeks of people (mostly women) being persecuted for what is mostly their business.

    i will reitarate what i said earlier – a man who cannot keep his pants on long enough to get home (its not like when there are many wives he will have one with him at all times just in case he is in the mood) has no business getting married and/or entering a long term relationship. the main crux of your argument is mostly the male libido and his inability to control it. i think this would be a problem regardless of whether he was in a monogomous or polygomous relationship.

  • By Mwangi, June 17, 2008 @ 8:27 pm

    @Caustic: First of all, I think the point should be made that polygamy came and was practiced widely first and so polygamy wasn’t invented as a cure to any problems with monogamy as far as I can tell.
    The reason I chose the infidelity angle is 2:
    a) I am ignorant about polygamy and can only speak about it in terms and from a place that I understand, and I understand infidelity quite well.
    b) Everyone else in reading does too.
    And again I ask the question: Is a man wanting to and ultimately having more than one woman an anomaly or is it the way men were designed? You’re right I did sell it using the whole infidelity angle but if you look at the flip side could I simply be selling it from the this-is-how-men-are-angle too?
    I am not suggesting it for appeasement but because to lie and be a liar goes against being a man of integrity and I think that a man should always strive if for nothing else absolute integrity especially to his family and community.
    Hmm, I think meek meek has a point though, thanks to the great arguments from all y’all I have realized the limits to my understanding on this matter, though some folks have definitely taught me a thing or two, so I hope that there are folks who can add some more info about it to the discussion.

  • By Carol, June 17, 2008 @ 8:36 pm

    Oh my God,je rêve!
    I will start by saying that there should be a clear line drawn between polygamy and bigamy. Cheating on ones partener should not even count here, if a man cheats, its wrong and should not shift blames to polygamy! I know that men can be polygamous by nature, but hey Mwangi, are you serious when you say that marrying for love is impossible? That love dies? We have parents who have been together for 20,30 and more years, and love is still in the air! Never did they or do they ever cheat on each other!
    Oh I was supposed to keep this positive, but I cannot, if the only way to keep a man with me is to share him, I’d rather have none, and yes, I mean it. In this society, this question should just be out! NO NO NO TO POLYGAMY! Have you seen how HIV/ Aids swept some places in Africa? This whole thing is mostly about polygamy, and since they were official couples, no preservatives were used,results? All(or a large percentage of) persons concerned contacted the virus.
    How would this guy feels if he comes home, find out that the wife has been sleeping with another man? Just smile and say -hi dear,how was your day? No! Never!So (men) put yourselves in the woman’s shoes too. Hey, btw… the women who were in polygamous marriages in one way or another were not always happy. Human beings are possesive by nature. Just like sharing…….. say a toothbrush,its disgusting,no? So is sharing a love partener (except for prostitutes)

  • By Kelly, June 17, 2008 @ 9:21 pm

    Interesting discussion once more. My issue is the fact that we women like living in denial…
    Show me an African man who hasn’t cheated on his wife more than once. How comes divorce rates aren’t rocket high like the West where there are higher incidences of infidelity?
    Because most women choose to close one eye and live with it. It’s sad and pathetic, but thats the truth. We good African women aren’t wired to divorce, cheat on, or even leave our men.
    Which leads to my thought train, which is the lesser evil here?
    It’s interesting that I’m the only woman an this side, but I’d love to hear from a woman who’s married, and has been cheated on…

  • By Carol, June 17, 2008 @ 10:20 pm

    @Kelly:Oh no!Not again! You want to say all African men cheat?
    My Dad too, I am dropping my family name today…………lol!
    No lets get serious, I know that there are women who learn that their husbands cheat on them but do not even confront them, that is pure shit! They are guilty coz that there are conjugal responsibilities (among others) that they do not fulfill, this makes the man ‘a chest front’ as I at times call them, take advantage of her submissiveness,to use his inability to control himself! One thing is for sure, African men have a fucking ego,and a selfish and exegerated self pride,while on the other hand, the women are humble and submissive, by nature.
    I think I also want to hear from a few married women who have been cheated on!

  • By Kelly, June 18, 2008 @ 6:17 am

    @ Carol, there is that one man who doesn’t cheat, but fact is, a very large percentage does… Infact there was an interesting call in session in a popular radio station about spouses who are sure their men have always been faithful faithful, only one woman was sure (she’d been married 6 months). My statistics are not accurate, and your dad could be extra ordinary, but I think it’s good to be realistic.

    Of course I’m not going to sweetly tell my husband ‘it’s ok for you to cheat, and marry 100 wives’, but I find it less heartbreaking to prepare for anything then be suprised if it doesn’t happen.

    If I get married, of course the husband will know that the day he cheats on me, I throw him out on his behind… but well…

  • By Mwangi, June 18, 2008 @ 8:07 am

    @Spicebear:
    As I was saying to Caustic, you folks have helped me realize that there is a great limit to my understanding on this matter, but I’ll soldier on with what I do know.

    I think to a large extent a man’s “love”, let’s call it infatuation and lust are intertwined. I know I’m not alone in falling for a girl the first day I meet her though I know, and care very little, about her personality, hopes and dreams. The fact that she was good looking and/or nice was good enough for me. What I am proposing, though I definitely need to investigate this more before saying its conclusive, is that men’s constant pursuit of women and sex perhaps was put there for a higher purpose that our culture is chosing to ignore, supresss and redirect.

    I stongly agree with you though that folks need to evaluate why they get married. Though I am not using this as one of my arguments: one can easily make the case that marrying so that you have someone who’ll love you for the rest of your life is way worse than marrying for sex. Children, continuity of the race and family come out of the pursuit of sex. The same thing can’t be said about going after someone to leech love off for the rest of your life.

    The reason I brought up the sexism and abuse was to concede that indeed it wasn’t all roses and butterflies back in the day when Africans practiced polygamy. BUT surely its better for all the struggling single mother families out there that are the result of affairs women have had with married men.

    Again, I ask you what I asked Caustic. Keep in mind, that polygamy has been practiced longer and over time by more cultures, so monogamy is the anomaly and not the other way around. Do you honestly think that if most men were legitimate polygamy they would continue to creep in the shadows everytime they were interested in a single woman? Why hide when you can practice what you are doing in the light?

  • By Mwangi, June 18, 2008 @ 8:11 am

    @everyone: As I was reading through the Wikipedia page on polygamy, an interesting idea came up:

    “Within polygynous societies, multiple wives often become a status symbol denoting wealth and power. Similarly, within societies that formally prohibit polygamy, social opinion may look favorably on persons maintaining mistresses or engaging in serial monogamy.”

    The player always gets more love and more sex than the serial monogamist who subjugates and bows before his wife’s feet. So, the man who can have a lot of women still gets a lot of society’s riches and status than the committed monogamist……just think of the “nice guy” vs “bad boy” debate for example.

  • By Mwangi, June 18, 2008 @ 8:17 am

    @Carol: I’m not saying marrying for love is impossible. I’m just saying that its probably one of the silliest reasons to get married….so you can suck love out of somebody else. That love WILL eventually fade, nine times out of ten…if it was the only glue that was holding you together, then what? I am willing to bet that for those folks who still love each other 20,30 years down the road, the glue that is holding them together at the core isn’t just passion but rather shared goals or an underlying friendship or simply the fact that they made a commitment to each other, society and God.

    I mean even marrying so you can raise succesful children together seems to make more sense than marrying based on some capricious, ever changing emotion.

    As for HIV infection, that’s for men who practice infidelity. If you are speaking in terms of Kenya, I hardly if ever see or hear about polygamy and there its usually just straight up infidelity which causes AIDs contamination. Polygamy probably wouldn’t result in such a high STD rate because everyone knows whose sleeping with everyone.

    As for the jealousy and the possesiveness…..again, isn’t that a bad thing?

  • By Mwangi, June 18, 2008 @ 8:19 am

    @Kelly: It looks like its just you and me huh holding the fort huh! Leeban and the preacher showed their support briefly and then bounced.

  • By Caustic Blonde, June 18, 2008 @ 9:54 am

    Correct me if I am wrong, but the LUO (I am not sure on the spelling) tribe is one of the tribes that practices polygamy and if I am mistaken I read somewhere that 1 in 5 in that tribe has HIV?

  • By Mwangi, June 18, 2008 @ 10:04 am

    @Caustic Blonde: I don’t know if that’s true, but the HIV rate in many parts of Africa that are monogamous is about the same, 1 in 5 and in some areas like Botswana and Swaziland, 1 in 3, so I think it would be challenging to establish a cause-effect relationship between polygamy and AIDS.

  • By spicebear, June 18, 2008 @ 11:04 am

    “loving” someone without knowing her hopes and dreams and personality is just infatuation. let us not confuse the two. how can you claim to love someone without even knowing them? without knowledge of their quirks and likes and dislikes? when you talk about loving someone, its not ati a shiny object that you see in the shops and immediately want. that is a person. love is after seeing a person, warts and all and still want to be with them. kind of like the way parents always love their children and all that.

    since you seem to have a disdain for the whole concept of love maybe you need to explain what you think what it is. you seem to be thinking its the stuff that comes from romance novels and disney movies that is supposed to last forever. but in my view, having a companion and partner in life goes way beyond that and even though it may not be the hollywood definition of love, its still there. you have to love someone in someway to wake up next to them everyday and spend decages with them and have all sorts of commitments with them. maybe what you mean to say is that you think love is hogwash, and thats fine, you arent the only one. but the whole marrying for love is worse than marrying for sex? pretty laughable if you ask me. eventually, with time, sex drive dissipates. the whole ritual of marriage just to get laid? im sorry, it just doesnt wash.

    and im still puzzled as to why you expect those women not willing to engage in polygamy to do it for their own good or else they will end up bitter and alone and oh my goodness, single parents. ever considered that maybe that is why some of them are single? because they would rather eke it out on their own than put up with a situation that reminds them that they are second or third best or just a vessel for a man’s magic stick?

    its a tad misogynistic for you to suggest that surely having a woman with a man (it doesnt matter if the family isn’t happy or that one or both spouses are miserable) with all the abuse, sexism and disfunction is better than a woman who would rather be alone/bring up children alone. i said earlier, there is a reason that the status quo changed and with all that women are capable of you cant surely expect them to go back to the way things used to be for the sake of society. let us not forget, it wasnt all roses and rainbows back then. there were serious issues. attempting to whitewash over them serves no one but the man who wants to have indiscriminate sex when he wants it with no thoughts of the consequences.

    and as i said before, i dont buy this whole men just cant handle their libido thing. show me a man without standards and ill show you a liar. it only becomes a story of “no control” when situations are leaning in his favour. i say again (and i believe caustic blonde said so too) a man who just wants to hump around will do so regardless of whether he has one or ten wives back home.

    and kelly said “show me an african man who hasn’t cheated on his wife more than twice” whoa kelly, the entire continent is struglling under that blanket of assumption you threw over them. as to why divorce isnt more common in africa i will try to answer that as best as i can (and anyone with stats can join in and corrct me if i am wrong, im working from memory here). divorce rates went up in the states at least from the late sixties and seventies because no fault divorces were easy and accesible, the workplace was opening up to them and the stigma of being divorced was lessening. the moment other options were available, some chose to simply walk away. on the other hand, it is extremely hard for a woman to get a divorce in kenya. or any divorce for that matter i dont know about other countries but we are stuck with laws handed down by our colonial masters that have barely changed since independence and a largely old male legislature not willing to change it or too busy figuring out new ways to enrich themselves. so no, statistically, rate of divorce is lower, but others just separate instead of going through the enormous cost and legal hassle involved.

    and mwangi, you say that jealousy and possesiveness are a bad thing. it only seems to be a bad thing when applied to women, because in your hypothesis, men can be cagey with their wives and constantly coddled. but would he be so willing if a woman decided to go out and get some cos she isnt being satisfied? cos in the kind of world you are talking about, i highly doubt it.

  • By Mwangi, June 18, 2008 @ 11:42 am

    First of all, you and I agree entirely, that what I described wasn’t love. It was infatuation and I believe that this is what most folks think of when they are talking about love. I also agree that love isn’t that bubbly emotion so much as it is a decision to stay true to someone after seeing their warts and all. Now in discussing infatuation, a woman usually needs to know a little bit about the man before she becomes infatuated with him but yes, a dude can just see a woman and become instantly infatuated as far as I can tell….we are visual like that.

    What hurts me is when folks enter into a union with the “make me feel good mentality”.

    In my view, love mainly counts when the going is bad. When someone has hurt you, betrayed you, stolen from you or isn’t giving you what you need that’s when love shows itself. It honestly scares me, the possibility of marrying a woman and 20 years down the road she leaves me because “the spark isn’t there!” When I watch sitcoms and TV shows and see the reasons that people who “were in love” split up I always think to myself, that isn’t love, that is a business arrangement where I’ll make you feel happy only on the condition that you do the same to me. To love is to give without expecting anything in return. It’s not glamarous, it’s not pretty, you’ll get hurt a lot, but that’s the only way I was taught to understand love. And as I said, can you imagine how many families in Africa would have fallen apart if we took every betrayal and incidence of abuse as a “deal breaker”. I think commitment to other people’s welfare above your own is something greatly missing from this Westernized notion of love.

    I still stand by my statement that its better to marry for sex or raise kids together than for love, though that’s more of an empty rhetorical statement on my part than anything I want to build an argument on.

    In regards to the single parent situation, I am comparing what happens now where men have families with their mistress and their wives. At least the wife gets some economic benefits and the emotional benefits associated with being out in the open. What about the mistress?

    I think something that hasn’t been discussed but that we all know is true, is that women will put up with a lot when they love a man. A lot of these mistresses love and are loyal to these married men even though they have to live with the burdens of not being legit. So what I’m saying is that under polygamy these women don’t have to hide and can come out in the open. Something else that hasn’t been discussed is that a lot of the time the wives know the husband’s mistresses too and turn a blind eye to them, knowing full well that when the husband dies this woman won’t get jack. Under this arrangement, she get’s taken care of.

    As for single parent households, I don’t think we need to discuss how important it is for a father to be there. Sure women can raise the child on their own, but this child will simply grow up better if his daddy is there and he can be sure his daddy will always be there.

    I’m not whitewashing the negatives of abuse and sexism from years past, but they pretty much continue today under monogamy, it’s only that some of the advantages of old school relationships aren’t there.

    As I said, I don’t think that most men would sleep around if they could just as easily in the open have more than one wife…..but, I’m hypothesizing on that one and I think this one merits further investigation considering almost all of us have seen and experienced life predominantly from a monogamous, Westernized perspective for the most part.

    In short, spicebear, I have reached the point where I am basically repeating my arguments because I don’t have enough case studies or experience to back them up. So, stay tuned over the course of this blog because I think this definitely deserves some future investigation. I need to get some more knowledge and experience under my belt for this one.

  • By spicebear, June 18, 2008 @ 1:00 pm

    the whole concept of love is one that can be discussed ad infinitum. but in my point of view, staying together just for the sake of it helps no one. it just leads to alot of resentment and unnecesarry tension. people who leave a relationship if its not working out are being honest with themselves and their partners and that in the long run works out for everybody. there is nothing worse than coming home to someone who you feel no connection to whatsoever. you and i seem to agree that romanticised love doesnt last forever but part when the application to relationship occurs.

    i still feel that what you are saying is that women should put up with a situation just for the sake of society or family or whatever. if she is fine with it then that is fine, but if she feels it is not feasible and she can leave then so be it. to say that polygamy is the only option out of the connundrum that is modern marriage is to take away options and leave the man way ahead, because he gets all the choices and all women get to put up with it.

    anyway, i will be looking forward to reading whatever else you write on the issue.

  • By Mwangi, June 18, 2008 @ 1:18 pm

    @spicebear: Yup, this one will come up in future when I at least have a few more case studies and real life stories, so far I only have heard a couple, so I look forward to hearing more.
    As for what you said about love, one thing that I vowed from a very young age is that even if I want to kill my family and wife because they irritate, I will stay true to them. I am not saying this to be a martyr but I think that having a home, a place where someone can feel safe and stable and secure is way more important than love, lust or even a feeling of connection and because I have seen and admired folks who did that.
    I also don’t think that we should ever mentally allow for ourselves to get to a point where it’s either or….either the marriage makes me happy now or I’ll make you feel unhappy (for a short while) and erode your trust in relationships and the institution of marriage.
    I have had this article in my drafts for a while now where I basically talk about how we really don’t have any good reason to get married any more. There’s really nothing marriage offers the modern day Westerner that a de facto relationship doesn’t as far as I can tell, especially when lack of connection and love is enough to gets to stepping.

  • By gal africana, June 18, 2008 @ 6:05 pm

    Very apropos the discussion: http://www2.oprah.com/tows/slide/200710/20071026/slide_20071026_284_101.jhtml

    I think “different strokes for different folks”. If people can respect each other in a polygamous marriage, and fulfill each others needs…then go for it!

    The arguments for should probably be more wholesome than “fear of being left after twenty years” or “mens inability to keep it in their pants” (by the way, womens libido could be just as high as mens…but society has always been geared towards denying and repressing this)…

    Polygamous marriages should be decriminalized, but no one should be forced to be in one.

  • By Mwangi, June 18, 2008 @ 6:10 pm

    @gal africana: Thanks for sharing the link, I’m browsing through it now. I had to start the argument from somewhere and I thought that was a pretty good place to start it from – infidelity and libido- cause everyone has an opinion on those two.
    As for women’s high sex drive, though I have little doubt that women can be as “wide seed distributing” as men come, from what I have seen and experienced, I find it hard to believe that this is natural as much as it is a product of culture. Y’all just invest and see and bring out too much emotion out of sex for me to believe that a woman can callously sleep around in the same way a testosterone filled male can.
    Now to check out Oprah

  • By Mwangi, June 18, 2008 @ 6:43 pm

    @gal: I just finished going through the Oprah polygamy show slides and video. The feeling I got from watching it is the same feeling I got when I watched the movie, The Great Happiness Space: Tale of an Osaka Love Thief http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0493420/.

    People are coming in to look at polygamy as it relates to their prejudices and preconceptions. They are not letting the people just be and trying to understand them.

    As a result, I felt that a lot of it was pandering to sensibilities of the majority as opposed to trying to make the majority understand their lives.

    For some reason, I feel in a show like ‘Big Love’, polygamists are allowed to be….just be, much more.

    Thx again for the link.

  • By Caustic Blonde, June 18, 2008 @ 7:29 pm

    @Mwangi,
    I was in a hurry with my last comment and left out that I read 1 in 16 Kenyans have HIV and that 1 in 5 Luo have HIV. If I used your logic then people who practice polygamy would have lower cases of STDs in general. Your theory does not hold water and it all goes back to your thinking that polygamy somehow cures infidelity. You haven’t really offered any sound reason that polygamy is the way to go.

  • By Mwangi, June 18, 2008 @ 7:42 pm

    @Caustic: I think you are misunderstanding, I am not prescribing polygamy as a “cure to infidelity”. Under my mental exercise, which as I said, definitely needs more investigation, I am suggesting that infidelity being so rampant is as a result of trying to work against the natural rhythms of a man and that polygamy is a practice and system that goes with the grain of male rhythms better.
    What I am proposing its a cure for is single parent households of mistresses that don’t get all the benefits of the original wife.
    As for the stats on Luos, please any Luos in the house contribute. I didn’t think that Luos practiced polygamy. I knew that they had wife sharing, where the widow’s brother inherits someone’s wife upon death and they also have a common practice of women exchanging sex for fish but other than that I don’t know that much of what goes on lakeside. But I highly doubt polygamy is being practiced there openly….but please anyone who knows leave a comment.

  • By Carol, June 18, 2008 @ 8:05 pm

    @ Caustic:That thing of 1 out of 16 kenyans or 1 out of 5 luos just connot be true! what’s the source(before we go to court)?
    Both polygamy and wife inheritance, yes,those days,but now, I think it just fades.
    ‘Finally, as I have said previously, polygamy appears to be the best way for a man to somewhat stay true to his nature’…………These are your words Mwangi, just trying to justify infidelity and covering it up with polygamy!
    Being possesive is not evel,though its not good, but its human nature. This discussion needs a hole seminar, we could invite ourselver for a real forum!

  • By Carol, June 18, 2008 @ 8:06 pm

    I meant a whole seminar!

  • By Mwangi, June 18, 2008 @ 8:14 pm

    @Carol: It seems that the way I tried to explain it is getting lost in translation………….I am enjoying hearing what folks have to say via comments, don’t think we need to move to a forum. I don’t think being possessive is an automatic part of human nature. Lest we forget once upon a time, we didn’t perceive ourselves as “owning” anything, we were just stewards of the Lord’s creation. Perhaps this whole jealousy thing is just as a result of living in capitalistic and societies where there was land and property ownership. Maybe, I don’t know. But we can’t really be sure that jealousy and possessiveness is automatic until we can find a way to test that.

    @Caustic: Please post the link to the stats so we can have a look..

  • By Caustic Blonde, June 18, 2008 @ 8:29 pm

    I read those statistics a few months back and did a search just now, I did not come across the original statistics, but I did run across this page:
    http://www.globalhealthreporting.org/countries/kenya.asp?collID=11&id=1414&malID=1416&tbID=1415&hivIC=1411&malIC=1413&tbIC=1412&map=1418&con=Kenya&p=1

    Someone please tell me, can these numbers be correct:

    HIV/AIDS in Kenya

    33,829,592: population (July 2005 est.)

    1,300,000: Estimated number of people living with HIV/AIDS by the end of 2005

    6.1%:Estimated percentage of adults (ages 15-49) living with HIV/AIDS by the end of 2005
    62%: Estimated percentage of HIV cases that occured among women (ages 15-49) by the end of 2005

    150,000: Estimated number of children (ages 0-15) living with HIV/AIDS by the end of 2005

    140,000: Estimated number of deaths due to AIDS during 2005

    1,100,000: Estimated number of children who have lost their mother or father or both parents to AIDS and who were alive and under the age of 17 end of 2005

    The most alarming is: 62%: Estimated percentage of HIV cases that occured among women (ages 15-49) by the end of 2005 Am I reading this correctly? 62% of women ages 15-49 have HIV? Please tell me I am misreading this. I hope this is a typo.

  • By Mwangi, June 18, 2008 @ 9:27 pm

    @Caustic: I remember reading somewhere that AIDS has had the most damaging effect on women affecting them at a much higher rate than it is the men. I don’t think it can be that high, but its probably pretty high as far as I can tell.

  • By Kelly, June 18, 2008 @ 11:05 pm

    The main reason HIV is prevalent in Lou land is because of wife inheritance. Husband dies of AIDS, brother inherits the widow, ends up infecting his other wives.
    @caustic, currently the prevalence leer is 5%, I doubt the 62% figures. All in all AIDS statistics in Kenya/Africa have been highly controversial, just like the origin of the disease.

    Whether we deny it or not, polygamy is happening here in Kenya. Just look at what happens when an MP dies, 2/3 other women show up with his children to claim the money, and under law, they’re recognised equally to his ‘legitimate’ kids.
    So my question to women out there, would you rather your husband has all these hidden families out there, who show up to share in your sweat / toil if he dies, or would you rather just accept a co-wife??
    Sincerely, I’d rather know she exists. May be I’m accepting but well…

  • By Kelly, June 18, 2008 @ 11:06 pm

    Sorry, I meant Luo Land, and prevalence rates

  • By DeTamble, June 18, 2008 @ 11:09 pm

    Does this mean I can have a boyfriend who I love and adore and still get to shag all the other boys? Because if so, I am SO THERE!

  • By Mwangi, June 18, 2008 @ 11:47 pm

    @Kelly: I think you are defending the position in a much better way than I was, much more pragmatic and in line with today’s reality.

  • By Mwangi, June 18, 2008 @ 11:48 pm

    @DeTamble: And as always you surprise me

  • By DeTamble, June 18, 2008 @ 11:49 pm

    Anything for you Mwangi :P

  • By Kelly, June 19, 2008 @ 2:22 am

    Mwangi, may be it’s cos I’m on the ground, and at a certain age when a lady has to think about these things before embarking on ‘husband search’! Lol

  • By Mwangi, June 19, 2008 @ 10:09 am

    @Kelly: I kinda feel like I’m in the CNN newsroom here…..back to you on the ground, Kelly!

  • By Dawn, June 23, 2008 @ 4:33 am

    While I have not taken the time to sift through all of the posts at this moment I would like to post something on this subject that may or may not be covered in the responses. I would like to bring up the concept of Polyamoury. While the poly part remains the same ( many ) the focus is the amoury ( love). Ideally these are great relationships because they are open to both partners. ( as my granny would say what’s good for the goose is good for the gander) Where both would be able to explore sexual and loving relationships outside of the primary relationship. It is possible to love more than one person I believe. I feel that in a lot of ways this is what makes relationships go stale, feelings of settling, ( what ifs running thorugh the mind) it is human nature to be attracted to other people it does not mean you love your partner less , you just have a lot to share !!!
    The problem that arises tho in polyamorous relations at least in mine and others that i know experience. is pretty much this .. The guy is usually gung ho at first and all about it ( you mean i get to be with other girls ? ) and if the female is bisexual he automatically assumes it means 2 girls at once for him. woohooo so he is initially ok with the situation. When it comes to pass that those other girls are for the girlfriend not always him and the girlfriend he gets pissed. Enter the other guy who is with you girl . This is where it gets really hairy , said guy is totally cool with the idea that he can sleep with other girls and have threesomes with his girl but NOT the idea of his woman being with another man enter the double standard. It is perfectly fine and natural for him to fulfill his nature but not for a woman to be vivacious and sexual within her nature to be with other people as well .
    This is why these relationships tend to fail . The man’s jealousy. I know a lot of women who would be fine with this type of relationship providing there is complete openess and honesty ” hey honey I am going to be staying over at so and so’s house tonight dont wait up !! *wink * wink* ) which would eliminate the lies that cheating brings on because the whole concept of “cheating ” would be eliminated . But the most important part being non posseive and not being jealous on the man’s part rarely comes to pass. A lot of people will say that women are jealous well its been my experience that men can be just as jealous and insecure if not more so ! I dated a guy once who would get mad when I wore high heels because i was a good deal taller than him and everytime i talked to a male friend ( who could be obviosuly flaming gay queen ) he would be like ” who’s that are you sleeping with him ? ” tsk tsk , Why cant people just learn to communicate with one another and be open and honest about how we feel and what we want and not be judged ? hmm I guess that would be Utopia and we are just so far from that point in our society at this time.

  • By Kelly, June 23, 2008 @ 3:07 pm

    Mmmmh….glad I’m not the lone woman on this once more. @Dawn, thanks for supporting the idea that it’s possible to love more than one person. You’ve certainly brought a new swing to this…an open marriage.

    Blame it on background and upbringing, but my view on polygamy always assumed that the woman is ‘faithful’..this makes it even more interesting.
    BTW, I agree that men are more jealous and insecure than women, just that they go to great lengths to conceal it, while we will speak out.

    Lol at the ‘are you sleeping with him comment’..I have a friend who always asks that.

  • By Mwangi, June 23, 2008 @ 5:42 pm

    @Dawn and Kelly: I guess we set the all time high comment record.
    Personally, as a life long arrangement I would never go for polyamoury. While I am young and interested in having a lot of sex and not committing and settling down, perhaps but life long, I can’t do it or recommend it.
    This is because one of the purposes of family and relationship as far as I am concerned is to provide a stable environment for kids to grow up in and from what I have seen and read – examples being PUAs for example – polyamoury doesn’t offer stability, it is far too fluid and not a solid base where a child can at least know they can rely on their parents.
    One of the reasons I proposed polygamy was because it was a strong base, where everyone knew everyone and could rely on the fact that the father and mothers will always be there for them.
    I do agree though it’s possible to love more than one person.
    As for male jealousy vs female jealousy: I don’t know enough on the topic but we should definitely investigate and understand this sucker some more.

  • By Kelly, June 23, 2008 @ 6:37 pm

    Mwangi, I’m not sure what I feel for an open marriage, as I said, I’m quite conservative on the issue of sleeping with another man if I’m married and all, but what I say is ‘whatever floats your boat…’ Unless I’m getting this wrong, isn’t polyamoury like having an open marriage? How does this affect the family stability?

  • By Mwangi, June 23, 2008 @ 6:43 pm

    @Kelly: Polyamoury tends to be much looser and much more….well open, with both parties being free to leave the union whenever it stops satisfying their needs….Dawn, please correct me if I’m wrong. Whereas polygamy tends to be a union, usually with sacred overtones, entered into for life, even after it stops satisfying one’s needs for passion. My 0.02

  • By Kelly, June 23, 2008 @ 6:49 pm

    ooh, in that case I don’t think I approve. A marriage is sacred and IMO if passion is the prob, there are ways of working around that instead of walking out…Again, easier said than done.

  • By Mwangi, June 23, 2008 @ 6:53 pm

    @Kelly: That was definitely something that sadly was missing from this discussion, opinions from folks with experience. That definitely must be corrected next time we start this discussion.

  • By Kelly, June 23, 2008 @ 6:57 pm

    Yeah, I don’t know if there are no married folks in the blogosphere or what..

  • By Mwangi, June 23, 2008 @ 6:59 pm

    @Kelly: I think most of the married folk probably congregate on other forums and blogs to talk about business or politics. It looks like the blogosphere is predominantly a collection of young, single and searchings.

  • By Dawn, June 23, 2008 @ 10:29 pm

    Wow . I woke up this morning to a allof these replys!!! I’m still waking up and processing LOL .. But I am commenting back on this particular reply. Because while I myself am not particularly polyamorous ( if I met the right person perhaps) I have known people who are many people and these people also have children. It is a VERY loving and stable relationship that these people have. It’s not a loose union most of these people are in marriages now while of course these end and sometimes third marriages are not legally recognized they are recognized in the hearts of the people involved. It’s not just a sexual thing that is the primary differerence. These are all independant and sometimes shared relationships. and those parties that are involved love , support and nurture the children involved in these unions because well its all aobut the love !! LOL I guess you could say it goes along with that old saying “it takes a villiage to raise to a child.” As far it being a negative influence to grow up in such an environment i would not really say that, these children tend to grow up ( yes I know some grown children who where brought up in these types of situations) tend to have open minds being encouraged and nurtured to accept all types of people and different ideas and not conditoined to one set way of thinking. You can relate to so many things on so many levels how people get set in a particular frame of mind on certain subjects just because they where thought that one way is right while all others are wrong. Which leads to arguments sometimes wars and generally all kinds of bad things. I’ve always been of a very open mind tho i grew up rather conservatively but it also just part of my personality to seek the other answers out there i dont like to settle .. ;)

  • By Kelly, June 23, 2008 @ 10:36 pm

    @Dawn, methinks that this is just like the African polygamous family then?Like the whole thing of raising kids together and all. A friend of mine joked how they had ‘exchange programs’ with the step mum’s kids over holidays (his father was ploygamous) What do you think Mwangi?

  • By Dawn, June 23, 2008 @ 10:37 pm

    Hi Kelly !!! There are a LOT of women out there who feel fine with the openness in their relationships providing that is open on BOTH ends !! LOL After all fair is fair right ? Now one thing i did not get into before which can open even more debate is the fact that I have found in my experiences that most people who practice these types of life styles practice “the old ways” in spirituality various ecclectic forms of paganism and earth religions some examples Wicca , Santeria , Thelema , Khemetisim,ect those are just very few examples there are tons of variations in personal beliefs but the shared view of these is that while most world religions such as christianity and islam tend to be patriarichal based these schools of thoughts are matriarichal based or based on the concept of male AND feminine divinity in equal proportion. Just some further food for thought.

  • By Kelly, June 23, 2008 @ 10:41 pm

    mmhhh I need to research on these other beliefs…
    Yeah, I agree Christianity and Islam heavily lean towards favouring the man especially in matters sexual and marriage related.

    I kinda like the idea of having a marriage thats open on both ends, as I said earlier, if the passion is dead, then there are other options, but again, being the Christian, African woman has raised me with the attitude of ‘it’s ok for the man to cheat/marry many wives, but the woman is supposed to be faithful…’

  • By Dawn, June 23, 2008 @ 10:42 pm

    “exchange programs” lol yeah I can see that but is does sound similar then because that is what a lot of families do, do spend time holidays whatever with the extended family except in this case the women have their other loves and husbands and the men have their loves and wives as well which all incorporate together . Also tho like i have said before while these unions can be very nice for everyone involved it needs to be very clear to everyone what they are entering into the honesty and communication come above all else to make that sort of thing work.

  • By Mwangi, June 23, 2008 @ 10:51 pm

    @Dawn: I agree with Kelly that that seems very much like African polygamy. Would I be wrong though in making the point that what separates the polyamorous from the polygamist is that in polygamy it is one woman marrying a man and his other wives(s) for life regardless of whether or not the union satisfies them emotionally whereas polyamourous relationships end if the love ever fades?

  • By Dawn, June 23, 2008 @ 10:55 pm

    I totally understand that school of thought too !! I myself was raised in a strict catholic household where the males ” whored around “: ( as my granny would put it) while the women stayed stoic and docile towards the men . Instilling the idea that it is ok and acceptable for the man to go out and do what he wants while the woman stays home faithful and taking care of the kids and home. Society has quite the double standard dont you think ? My grandma always said a man can go out sleep with a different woman every night take a shower the next morning put on a clean shirt and be accepted anywhere, while a women displaying the same behavior is labeled as a “whore ” a “slut” ” no good ” ect . Granny also always said ” don’t give it away for free ” “remember a woman Is whore whether she gets paid or not so you might as well get something from it ” Now Im not saying that when i do meet someone i am attracted to and that i like i make them give some favor in return but i use that as an example as to why so many women get jaded and turn into “man haters” my grams being a perfect example her first husband cheated numerous times had many other children all over the world ( he wsa in the military ) but she had the strength to leave him while they where in Italy come back to the states and raise 4 kids on her own working in a factory in the 1950’s no help from a man whatsoever ( its only been in the last 10 years shes been recieveing money garnished from his Social security and pension to pay back the child support never given her during the time her children where young) but i digress . I come from a line of independant and strong women who are not afraid to defy men and the predispositoined roles. So i guess it’s in my nature lol as I said earlier Ive alway been one to try to seek a little further beyond what i am shown there is always a flip side to every situation and thought . factors unknown that sort of thing.. ok im rambling i need to get some breakfast ..

  • By Kelly, June 23, 2008 @ 11:01 pm

    mmmh dawn I think I feel you. Coming from a broken family where the dad had kids from over 4 diff women, I actually feel the double standards. Isn’t it funny that when a woman leaves a man who has cheated on her left right and centre, abused her both physically and psychologically, she is still condemned as the woman who ruined her family????
    That has never ceased to amaze me about Africa and it’s attitudes on family…

  • By Dawn, June 23, 2008 @ 11:02 pm

    you are pretty much right on that account .. but dont most relationships end when the love fades ? Of course I am from the US where the divorce rate is very high i believe over 50 percent at this time. Usually tho as in most cases if there are children involved there is maintained some type of friendship for the sake of the child not always tho ( i am speaking of divorced or seperated people in general here ) I can’t imagine being in a loveless marriage for any reason regardless of whether it is monogomous or otherwise. maybe this is more a western way of thought ?

  • By Mwangi, June 23, 2008 @ 11:07 pm

    @Dawn: Yup, and the type of union’s I am talking about are those that remain steadfast even when there is no love between the two parties. As I have said many times before, I think marrying and expecting a marriage to stay steady because the other party will make me feel loved for the rest of my life is flawed.
    As for the double standards surrounding infidelity, I really can’t say much because I am a man and I do benefit from the system as it exists and so anything I say pretty much would be coming from that place.

  • By Dawn, June 23, 2008 @ 11:12 pm

    I know what you are saying . The woman is expected to take it and smile and bear the abuse ( whatever type it may be ) and she is the one who gets blamed when she tries to better her life !! that is a trend throughout the world i think not so much in the states nowadays but there are still people here who think like that its everywhere really. While i dont really have an experience or knoweledge of African culture and way of life. I know that during the last time I was talking to my daughters father ( hes from Africa) (im expecting in Sept) he acted like he wanted to involved ect ect .. but we should do a paternity test which is no problem at all !! he made a comment to the effect of so what do we do then do I marry you and take you back to Africa ? to which i was like Hell NO!! LOL dont get me wrong from what i have seen its a gorgeous land but you do only read the negative things about the attitudes towards women over there. and while i know that it is a much larger continent than the things you see on national geographic and in the media its still a strange land halfway around the world and nothing like what i am used to i am sure. I havent spoken to said guy since ( he’s hiding from me heh ) but i dont know generally speaking i would ask your opinion is it as bad for women in africa as it is portrayed to be on TV and news ? It seems all you ever hear about are things like the rapes in the congo and the mutilation of those women . i know it cant all be like that but in america those are the images that you see. and if its not that then its a woman carrying a basket of clothes on her head down to the river to wash on a rock . Im just curious .. someday i would like to be able to tell my child something of where she comes from .. not saying you have all the answers but it does intrigue me . do you know where i am coming from ?

  • By Kelly, June 23, 2008 @ 11:19 pm

    Now, @Mwangi, I think you mean relationships that survive even without passion. I find it rather hard to believe that even a normal friendship would survive without love, much less a marriage. Now what happens to marriages that actually have no love at all? As in there is hate, malice etc? These are doomed to end. What I believe is as long as we can remain friends, there is no need to divorce, we just stay together, bring up the children in stability, the man can marry other wives, I can get my fulfillment elsewhere, but at the end of the day we have a stable family…
    @Dawn. I hear you on the distorted view of African women. Congrats on the baby by the way! Imagine life here isn’t as bad as portrayed. Having grown up in rural Kenya, and now living in Nairobi I can say that women have made great strides in terms of self empowerment and being assertive. But I think the problem is, having witnessed so much abuse from men against our parents/grandparents, most ladies are also quite jaded about men, marriage etc (at least I speak for myselt)

  • By Dawn, June 23, 2008 @ 11:22 pm

    Wow it really is amazing how different thoughts and attitudes vary from culture to culture and person to person .. I can’t even fathom entering into a marriage for any reason other than love !! but that is my thought and opnion. As a little girl ( and once again this is conditioning here ) we are taught that someday we will meet a wonderful man ( prince charming if you will ) that wil sweep us off our feet make us feel so loved and special and that is where the marriage comes in adn the “ever after” now obviously I am not naive enough to buy into all of that you live and learn . but i still feel that marriage is a serious thing and if you dont love someone and cant imagine the rest of your life with them why do it . ? of course love does sour and fade sometimes . but at heart I do remain a bit of a romantic in the hope that somewhere out there is “the one” . I also understand that your being a man gives you a biased opinion towards the subject of multiple wives. but i have always found that even tho i dont entirely agree with someone else’s thoughts or beliefs it is at the least interesting to consider there are other possibilites . So that being said the big difference between polyamory and traditional polygamy being taht the woman has equal rights in the polyamorous situation at least that is the impression I am getting where as in polygamy the man calls the shots and has the rights while the women are subservient to their wishes ?

  • By Dawn, June 23, 2008 @ 11:27 pm

    II think that as far being jaded from our parents and grandparents experiences is a common thing for a lot of women all over the world. I also agree that even the most basic friendship is based on a type of love . I have to run for now tho . things to do people to see. I would love to continue discussion at later time tho . I thrive on healthy exchange of ideas and thoughts or ” good conversating ” lol

  • By Kelly, June 23, 2008 @ 11:28 pm

    @Dawn, yeah in African polygamy, the man calls all the shots, if the woman was to even be suspected of being unfaithful!!! Your life would be over.

    I think love is a good reason to marry, just that I find it so risky to get into a relationship having given your all and the other person lets you down, but well…

  • By Dawn, June 23, 2008 @ 11:35 pm

    wow .. that is so crazy .your life ? maybe these guys should check out the show Snapped ! it’s a documentry series ( series as in its ongoing there are that many cases a different one each time) about women who get pushed to their limits by their men ( cheating abuse ect ) and they “Snap” hence the title and kill these guys .. There is an old saying dont know if they have this saying in Africa but its one that i think men should be aware of ” Hell hath NO fury , like that of a woman scorned.”

  • By Dawn, June 23, 2008 @ 11:37 pm

    jsut thought i should clarify I dont support the idea of anyone killing anyone !! LOL but merely want to point out people have limits you acn only push someone so far ya know ?

  • By Kelly, June 23, 2008 @ 11:42 pm

    African women of the day were so docile… I remember my grand mum telling me of how her husband would beat her, and that was no big deal. Infact in some communities wife beating was a sign of love.

    I agree by the way. The things I have seen done to women in my life, put me in the same position and I will kill the man.

  • By Dawn, June 23, 2008 @ 11:48 pm

    I feel you girlfriend !!! I gotta run out the door tho .. Hey if you can download the song “Cellblock Tango ” from the musical Chicago it’s done by the “six merry murderesses” the chorus is to effect of ” he had it comin , he only had himself you blame , if youda seen it , if youda been there you woulda done the same. it was a murder but not a crime he had it comin !” lol its a bit of a comical take but still welll you get the picture its a great musical to you should check it out sometime !! TTYL

  • By Kelly, June 23, 2008 @ 11:51 pm

    Thanks gal! Have a great day!

  • By Mwangi, June 24, 2008 @ 12:04 am

    @Kelly: Agreed! You put it much better than me!

  • By Mwangi, June 24, 2008 @ 12:08 am

    @Kelly, Dawn and everyone: Until I actually have more knowledge and experience on the matter, I think I’ll leave you 2 to continue the dialogue because y’all are doing it so well………

  • By Carol, June 24, 2008 @ 6:10 pm

    Hey, I want everyone to agree with me that we can marry for love and love someone all our lives, and that a cheater will always be whether in monogamy, polygamy or even single. That a clear line should be drawn btween cheating and polygamy and not cover up a cheater saying ‘men are polygamous by nature’! That reasons for polygamy in old days,esp in Africa have completely (or almost) nothing to do with the cases in present days…. and that am just not about to marry if I know that I will share him with someone else!lol (and I know that am not the only one)

  • By Eric, September 15, 2008 @ 8:32 am

    Hello all, im not from african desent so I hope my posting here is ok. However, I am a son of American Polygamy so I hope I can say a couple things. First off, we men DO in most cases have a much higher libido than women do. It is just simple fact. It is not something that women want to think about and men usually tout. This does not of course give us lisence to run about having sex willy nilly. We are accountable for our actions just as much as women are.

    Second, It is possible to love more than one person with all your heart, it is actually stupid to think otherwise. Many people for example really close best friends and love them all dearly. What do you think a good marriage is? It is marriage of best friends who are endeared to each other, excited by each other, happy to be together and hold to each other when things are tough.

    Men and women alive keep coming back to the libido factor when talking about polygamy as I indicated in the first section, the section section of course is also the ideal. The fact is that GOOD polygamy takes both of these into account and a very heavy dose of reality.

    Sex is NOT the end all of existence, and can get down right taxing or boring at times. When your schedules are busy etc, your not feeling well and so on. Guys get tired of it too just like women. Relationships, helping one another and being there for each other, that never gets old.

    So is polygamy good? Yes and No, for the majority of people I think it is not something they are mature enough to live. And yes I am saying most people are to selfish, to controlling, and lack in love far to much to even consider it. Heck for most people if it was not for their “need” for a companion, they would just as well live their lives alone and spend all their days fullfilling their own wants and persuits , male or female.

    I have seen polygamy work, and work well. I have seen happy women and men, though the men are usually very tired as they have to work alot to support their large families. The kids feel greater levels of love and have a much more powerful support network than those with one or two siblings and one father and mother.

    If you can live polygamy and spit out your pride, toss off your greed, and slay your jealousy male and female alike, then you can have a marriage far exceeding that which you have ever had. Notice I said marriage, it is not marriages, when more women come into the marriage it is still a marriage. You have to learn to live as one.

    For those of you who are selfish , jealous, greedy, and unable to love others properly, never even think about becoming a polygamist. You will only destroy yourself and your family.

  • By Eric, September 15, 2008 @ 8:40 am

    One finaly note I forgot to put in. For polygamy to be good for all, everyone needs to be accountable. No one can be exempt from their behavior. Abuse of any kind from anyone should not be tolerated in the slightest. You can not have love and cruelty in the same home for long, one of them has to leave.

  • By Mwangi, September 16, 2008 @ 6:38 pm

    @Eric: Interesting….so in your case it actually “worked”. What country were you practicing in? Was it for religious reasons? Social reasons? Tradition? What were the biggest benefits you saw in polygamy that may not exist in other unions?

  • By Eric, September 16, 2008 @ 9:55 pm

    Mwagi , the USA. It was my parents who lived it. I do not live it myself though having seen it work well I would not be adverse to it. They lived it for religious reasons. I would say the biggest advantage came for the kids. Almost always having a play mate and someone to talk to.

  • By Sariat, September 25, 2008 @ 11:35 am

    Me, I am not for or against polygamy, if it fits you and your wives so be it. My grandfather is Muslim and has four wives, so I have some experience, growing up on his compound. For the most part polygamist families seem to have the same family conflicts that affect non- polygamist families. Just like with most things I think there can be some very positive and negative aspects to polygamy. My grandfather has a lot of kids, but for the most part from what I can see he loves his kids all the same, and has a relationship with all of them. My father from what I can see knows and gets along with all his brothers and sisters, regardless of whether they are from his mother. Now there have been fights and jealousy, within the family, but all the wives still live on my grandfathers compound, so something is working out for them, there still there. One thing I realize and thought was funny, is that out of all my uncles I don’t know any who have more than one wife. I was wondering why this is, they are Muslim like my grandfather, live in Africa, where it is not illegal, yet have not married more than one wife, even my father.

    living in the states peoples perspective on polygamy is very one sided, and polygamy is shown very badly in the Media. I remember, I think it was at school once, when I mentioned that my grandfather had more than one wife, I think that was the first time I realized how bad most of them viewed that way of life. I had to explain to them that although in American, when you hear on the news that in Utah fourteen year old girlsare getting forced into marriage, to a much older man with several other wives, this is not actually the case for most people who get into polygamist marriages.

    As for infidelity, sex and marriage, I was watching some Asian drama, and one of the characters said that a man who has sex without the existence of love is as good as an animal. Now that statement is not saying that you cannot have or enjoy sex without the existence of love. But realize what that means for you and that person, your committing an empty act. I often think human beings try to elevate themselves much higher than the average species of animals, but what they must realize is that if they are going to do this they must show and explain how in honest truth we are much better than other species of animals. Genetics shows we aren’t that far in genetic relation.

  • By Mwangi, September 26, 2008 @ 1:07 am

    @Sariat: Hmmm, that is interesting. Why didn’t your uncles take second wives? Is it because they grew up in an environment where social proof led in a different direction? Did the lifestyle disgust them? Is there something I am missing?

    Yup, if you read the comments above it becomes quite clear that in this Westernized society, we have an interesting scenario where people are more open to infidelity within monogamous unions and more wiling to wrap their heads around that than the idea of polygamy.

    I have seen one of those specials which puts down polygamy, it was Oprah actually, but in Kenya, growing up, for us it was simply not kosher or cool. No specials on TV, no discussions. Polygamy was something our grand folks did and not us…………

    I really have nowhere I can throw this in but I find it compelling that even Hugh Hefner’s revolving door of young under 25 bombshells is more acceptable than polygamy in its various forms.

    Anyway, thanks for stopping by and contributing to the discussion.

  • By lovesculture, October 10, 2008 @ 4:15 pm

    This is an interesting topic. I’m probably being bland here but I don’t agree or disagree with polygamy. Its an obvious historic fact as it is a current practice. What I see is a fact of repression in the eye of the beholder.

    First, in western cultures; most people are not going to look at the fact that
    monogamy can be oppressive because it has been diluted from the ‘old days’ where a woman and a man; met and married only to have sexual relations with that other person only*
    *Obviously this is not the linguistic term not to mention “the exception to the rule.”
    Now, people in western societies just use the term as having one sexual partner at a time. Yet, if you have only had monogamous relationships but have had over 100; how can that be redeemed as better than having 4 wives at the same time; and lets say you have had only those 4 for twenty years or more. Clearly its all a matter of perspective.
    Not to mention that a man can cheat on his wife and give her a STD, its just as likely as wives in polygamy. Unfortunately, we live in a world which has/creates diseases.
    Although a westerner, I can easily think about putting myself in other’s shoes and know that when it comes to security; I might want to practice polygamy for various reasons. I think that what is important is that
    each person put in the situation has choice- and that it is not forced into the situation against their will. However, I’m not in the situation of polygamy and probably never will be.

    In general; I believe that a womans deepest desire is to have a sense of security for herself and her family. By the laws of nature men are pre-disposed to being physically stronger. *This does not include the type of strength and pain tolerance when it comes to bearing children but in thier muscular make up. (at least the majority) Security also in the way that they are validated.*
    *Validation being of different variables.. (intelligence, attractiveness, emotional.. ect)

    In general I believe that men have the deepest desire to be worthy in their communities and have a strong bond to the validation of status; be that through family, work, play, women or all of the above.

    Either way the needs of men and women are different. Its more important today that humanity moves towards actions that will bring safety and security to all societies and cultures instead of bickering about what is
    the “rightous perspective.”

    I would hope that everyone who lives on this planet earth wants to be safe and secure (and a bigger dream that people want that for everyone).
    So if the people who are practicing polygamy are safe and secure; Thats alright with me. :)

  • By Mwangi, October 10, 2008 @ 7:44 pm

    @lovesculture: Something you brought up is important because its something we often forget. For many of us, if not majority, the reason that we enter into relationships, go to work, create economic systems etc is so that we can happy, loved, secure and have great relationships with each other.
    The reason I say this is because, something we do as people, myself included, is we get so caught up in the tool, e.g. whether its polyamoury or polygamy or monogamy without remembering that if they give the woman her needs, give the man her needs and give the community their needs, the means may not matter half as much as the end.
    Interesting thought you also brought up. A lot of people in monogamous cultures DO have waaaayyyyy more sexual and intimate partners over the course of their life than the polygamous man who may have single digit partners, who all know each other, all through their lives.
    This brings up one of my big fears about this monogamous societies, the fact that allegedly “everyone” has skeletons in their closet i.e. sexual partners they will never talk about in public.
    I would be inclined to believe that this type of thing probably wouldn’t happen as much as it currently happens in a polygamous society.

  • By A.T., December 17, 2008 @ 2:19 am

    First of all I think that most of the people that believe in polygamy are forgetting to see the big picture; AIDS. Do some of you not realize that AIDS and SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED INFECTIONS are a consequence of polygamy. Anybody with an ounce of common sense would appreciate this. And also and the end of the day it is the nature of the beast to be jealous of you significant other screwing someone else; whether your male, female, gay, lesbian or bi-sexual. Nobody likes to share someone that they truly love, because whether you believe it or not somebody is going to get the shorter end of the stick and be neglected. You can talk all the other bull shit all you want!! But please lets keep it real, and stop being ideal. Those poygamy practices are a thing of a past. AIDS was not an epidemic 100 years ago but it is now, and AFRICA is suffering from this epidemic in great numbers, because of these ignorant beliefs of having multiple sex partners. Get over it, and learn how to control sex drive, if you cared anything about yourself or your health you would not play around with your life. AIDS is real and it kills!!!

  • By Mwangi, December 17, 2008 @ 9:39 am

    @A.T.: Kenya, my home country, is one of the countries with the highest AIDS rates on Earth and its a monogamous culture. Zim also has a pretty high AIDS rate; I think second or third in the world and from what I can see its also a monogamous culture.
    South Africa, which is also one of the top nations, is monogamous. Botswana…..well, that’s just another tale entirely.
    Unless there’s something I am missing, which I highly doubt, AIDS has become an epidemic in this modern world where Africa has adapted to its own warped version of monogamy where a man has one wife but many girlfriends on the down low.
    Back to point I was making, if polygamy were allowed, some have made the case that AIDS would go down because everyone would know everyone’s sex partners because the man would have no reason to hide his other girlfriends, he’d just integrate them into his family.

  • By Eric, December 18, 2008 @ 1:00 am

    A.T. , Your points are valid ones. However Mwangi has a point as well. Take my parents for example, my father had 8 wives total at one time, he had sex with all of them and none of them had or have AIDS. Aids does not come from magic, you do not magically get infected, instead you get it from someone who carries it.

    So if none of your wives have it and you do not, then none of you will get it. Jealousy is a problem with Polygamy and it can and will destroy a family if left to grow. It takes a lot of trust, understanding and desire to be in such sintuations for them to work especially well.

    The first thing that has to work is communication between everyone, and a willingness to do so. Each wife must be able to share her feelings freely and not feel like she is of lesser value than anyone else. Further no wife should be of lesser value in anyones mind, the same goes for the husband, each wife needs to love him as much. Now granted that is Ideal, which is not going to happen often. Just like any family issues and problems arrise.

    IF each woman KNOWS she is really loved by the man she loves and she cares for her sister wife, then things DO work well. I know, because my mothers get along very well, even after my dad’s death, so it was not like they pretended to be friends or something to get along.

  • By Ginger, January 31, 2009 @ 1:47 pm

    Well, hell’s bells! In today’s society, women have exploded themselves so much that women like myself are left to try and stand tall with morals and not be considered one of the groupies. Multiple wives, well lets just break that down to “multiple holes” to stick your dick in. Men like variety right? And, they like to procreate…makes them feel superior. Unfortunately, not all men like the responsibilities.

    So, lets turn this around. Why is it that men can have multiple wives? How about women having multiple husbands that take care of her? Actually, I would perfer multiple men and not husbands. One man can be the lovemaker -whoever is the largest and most robust. The other man can be the nuturer towards me, etc.

    All joking aside, I do not believe in multiple marriages. This is called imbalance and we have enough of that in today’s society. God said the man will leave his family and become one with his wife – not wives!

  • By Mwangi, January 31, 2009 @ 1:57 pm

    @Ginger: Welcome to tDA Ginger.
    Why is it that people keep rebutting by quoting the Bible. If you read the Bible just a few chapters out from the verse that you have just quoted and many books after that, Jehovah was 100% behind polygamy and I defy you to name me 3 great figures of the Old Testament Bible who weren’t polygamist – I know there were a couple though the only biblical figure I can think of is Joseph father of Christ from the NT. So I think quoting the Bible as defense for monogamy is rather odd.

    I don’t think men and women should be judged by the same standards, their needs and wants are so different and the way we go about achieving them is so different. Women don’t have the same sex drives men do. Men don’t have the same maternal, nurturing instincts that women do. Women are drawn to men of value and substance at the core. Men are drawn to looks, sensuality and femininity at the core. That having been said, men and women both do get jealous so you do bring up a point where there is potential for huge problems, as has been shown by the other preceding comments.

    But the society we live in does have the problems described above, problems that aren’t as prevalent in a system that has existed longer and in more places than monogamy, short of a ginormous mind shift can you think of any other solution

  • By Ginger, February 1, 2009 @ 5:29 am

    Ok…then understand in the old testament the ways of the world were completely different before the coming of Christ. Populating the world was a main focus and doing so meant long lives and different goals. Who knows…maybe there was a shortage of men vs. women and polygomy solved the problem. We don’t know all the truths, because we weren’t there. One thing that cannot be questioned ever is what the Lord said as I quoted before. He purposely said a man leaves his family to be one with his wife – not wives. That was the ultimate goal whether played out that way or not – just as Adam and Eve there is to be one man and one woman in the union of marriage. Remember – free will is ours and this does not mean we follow the ways of the Lord always. Most humans base their behaviors by their interpretations – and that means what feels most comfortable to them.

    Sex drives have nothing to do with this issue, but because men focus on sex often, this type of lifestyle works wonders for them. Who wouldn’t like variety? Even women get tired of the same old thing more than you know.

    Regardless of a person’s beliefs, whatever way you choose to live your life is up to you. It is not me that you have to face one day, but the Lord. I am not here to judge, I only go by what my heart tells me and that is where the spirit of the Lord resides.

  • By Mwangi, February 1, 2009 @ 5:57 pm

    @Ginger: On the Biblical thing, there is no way you can convince me God was against it. The man who was “the father of his nation”, Abraham had many wives. The man who was the wisest man who ever lived, many wives. The man who was the ancestor of his only begotten son, David, many wives.
    And God always made it pretty clear when he didn’t like a practice, its not part of the 10 commandments, Jesus Christ didn’t rewrite this rule and since before then and after then polygamist cultures have always outnumbered monogamous cultures.
    I think for women to get into criticism of men for their sexuality is like a man insulting a woman for the burden of bearing children, a cheap shot simply because we can, so I think I’ll avoid that area.
    On this one, we will simply have to agree to disagree until someone brings me the verse where God said having one wife is the ideal and having many is evil.

  • By Eric, February 2, 2009 @ 2:39 am

    Mwangi and Ginger. Seems both of you are prety accurate in your perseptions of each other. Mwangi you feel that polygamy is about having sex with more women and Ginger thinks that is what it means to you. Sure it means sex, and if that is all it means to you then I am saddened by it. God himself has condoned and condemned the practice of polygamy at different points in history.

    Lets take a look at the best example of both shall we? DAVID , king of Israel and polygamist from long before he became king. God had him crowned as king and at the time he had atleast 3 wives. Nothing was said ill of his wives at that time. However, later on he began to lust after women, his own wives were not enough for him, he wanted the wife of his neighbor , and who was she? Bathsheba.

    What was the lords reply to him? He rebuked him for being so selfish, pointed out to him what had been given and that he would be so greedy as to rob his neigbor of his one jewel. Not only that, he had that neighbor murdered to cover it up.

    So, , Two things to learn from this fellow. One, God does approve of polygamist marriages that are loving, and not for selfishness, such as more sex, ownership, or any such basal desires.

    second, , He does NOT condone it for said selfish reasons, nor does he condone entering into it by wickedness.

    As to talking about Christs time, polygamy was a part of the jewish culture then. Roman culture was strictly monogamous, writings indicate that the jews wanted to lessen the hatred of their roman masters and began trying to emulate them. This of course being some not all.

    The apostles address the subject when talking about bishops, due to the burden of being a bishop, they advised he should have but one wife. If there were not members of the church with more than one wife, why would they even address the subject?

    Now this all being said, Marriage is something most sacred, solemn and wonderful. Something to be entered into with all the atributes of affection for one another that God would have us feel within us. Why would he want such things? Simple, were not here just for now, were eternal beings, were going to see God after this life and be with him there as well.

    I find it amusing that people think marriages are for this life only, , when you consider the words of Ginger, what was Gods very first commandment to man? Why to be with his wife of course. God commands us for more reasons than one, children of course are a part of this life, and I believe they will be of the next as well.

    Having children in a family that is full of love, one to another, true love, not fake selfish crap, and certainly not just to apease ones lebido is what makes a family whole.

  • By Mwangi, February 2, 2009 @ 3:09 am

    @Eric: To summarize my response to your comment, I shall just say, “Word!”…I agree :)

  • By Eric, February 2, 2009 @ 10:43 pm

    I need to make a correction, David was CROWNED king as a boy, and took the THRONE many years later when Saul was slain in battle by an oposing force.

    David married several women after becoming an adult and the lord blessed and strengthened him before and after becoming king including directing him by the input of the prophet at the time. And again he was not condemned in his behavior until he took another mans wife and murdered him to cover it up.

  • By Fluff, June 10, 2010 @ 9:48 am

    I am fine with polygamy, but I’m not 100% for it. Although I would never partake in it myself, if others were to be fine with it that’s up to them and is honestly in no way hurting anyone so it’s fine.

    The article brings up a lot of good points but from what I understand, the title should be changed from “Why EVERYONE Should be a Polygamist” to “Why Every MAN Should be a Polygamist.” Remember that in a typical polygamist marriage (one man many wives) the WIVES are actually monogamous–each only has one husband. The HUSBAND is the polygamous one, with many wives. People tend to forget that this is the case and it disappoints me because women still have the same “needs” as men and a “polygamous” relationship will not always “satisfy” this.

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