Comments on: 7 Unique Things That Africa and Africans Have Taught Me

By: 50 greatest Mandela quotes | rob-thompson.com

50 greatest Mandela quotes | rob-thompson.com — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 06:06:28 +0000

[...] 7 Unique Things That Africa and Africans Have Taught Me [...]

By: Mo

Mo — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:58:46 +0000

I find it INCREDIBLY ironic that Acolyte accuses you of stereotyping yet he gleefully refers to Somalis as ‘beasts’ in the comments of the following post.

http://mwanamishale.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/irritations/

Pot. kettle. Black.

By: Mwangi

Mwangi — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:20:40 +0000

@PS: However, people should have told us that not everyone gets to success by the formalized education road and that many who are in the minority that sits atop society either dropped out or skipped around formalized education all together. I am not saying formalized education is all bad, but I am saying, I wasn’t told the whole truth about it growing up: it isn’t the only way, it might be the majority way, but not the only way.
As for stereotypes: they exist at this present moment in time irrespective of our opinions of them and they don’t seem to be on their way out soon. My question is: can the current stereotypes that exist be exploited for good by the people being stereotyped? I believe the answer is yes.
Stereotyping and simplifying things on the basis of history and experience appears to be one of the fundamental ways that our brain works that keeps us from having to re-experience and re-understand everyone and everything: my question I repeat again: can this system that we people use to organize information be used for our benefit if we are willing to investigate how? I believe the answer is yes.
This article could not have been written had I not at least taken the time to stereotype and make generalizations and simplify: a lot of articles could not get written if we did not do this ( relationship books that say men are x, women are y, books on politics that propose that people of this country all have this shared culture, history, language, way of life, interests etc etc).
And I ask you what I asked Acolyte (though as I said, i now want to hear what aco has to say, I don’t want to argue anymore, I want to completely understand his side of the fence before I next respond): What alternative do you propose? More importantly do you live it? Do you take each and every human being as a unique individual without making any assumptions or pre-judgements ( good or bad) based on how they walk, talk, dress, act, where they are from etc etc? Do you do that in relationships, with bank tellers, when you watch movies? Take a moment to answer that question and chances are you’ll realize how much we stereotype already and how perhaps my line of questioning:

How to exploit what’s already there while its there?

may perhaps serve as better NOW while many of us work towards creating a world where everyone re-learns and re-experiences every single person they meet.

By: PS

PS — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:07:30 +0000

I have read the exchange this weekend between Messrs Acolyte and Mwangi with no small amount of discomfort. Many people strive to teach the next generation that school based education is the way to upward mobility, and reading M’s views that education in school is not for everyone is a difficult perspective to understand. I say difficult because the people who make the job and employment and salary rules still read the gospel of degree and certificate.Whether the actual economy where you live supports entry into any job is another case, but the people running the world of work are operating under the same mentality, and unless there has suddenly been a boom in the number of people starting businesses, there is still a good number of people joining the workforce.
Stereotypes: I do not think it is useful at all to stereotype people. Positive stereotypes always exclude, and we know the effects of negative stereotypes. I see your point M, as an attempt to justify stereotypes, an example being the Asian stereotype. Just because many Asians are enterprising, bright, high achieving etc does not permit us to classify Asians as the ‘model minority’. Even in families where the family is Asian, there is absolutely no guarantee that the children will be high achievers. In fact, because of the Asian stereotype there are many studies on the high suicide rate in some Asian countries where they have been held to an uncompromisingly high standard to the detriment of some students, and citizens.
If you look at the same dictionary on the now-less-used terms to describe black people, the word ‘coloured’ probably sounds quite benign, but if you look at the roots of the word, and the connotations of many of these terms, they have been cleaned up from the muddy beginnings and made their way into modern language. Stereotypes may lead us to put you, M, in a ‘perceptual frameworks which simplify people and put them into categories and place expectations upon them on the basis of race, religion, ethnicity, background etc etc’ and decide that your choice about education means you are X type of person, and to accept that generalization no matter how well you present a case to the contrary. See what I mean?

By: My 4 Hour Work Week Journey: Book Overview and Preface Chapters » The Displaced African

Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:36:03 +0000

[...] Do I need to be an Ivy League graduate? Me and Acolyte have argued about the importance of formal education in guaranteeing success in life, let’s watch and see as I go through the [...]

By: Mwangi

Mwangi — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 21:49:56 +0000

@acolyte: Apologies, I’m thinking on my feet: Actually you know what, tell me what your ideal scenario would be in regards to both stereotypes and education. I am all ears now, no more arguing, I think you’ve heard enough of my POV.

By: Mwangi

Mwangi — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 21:44:54 +0000

@acolyte: And as a btw just so that we are clear on just what we are arguing on, a stereotype does not define the person being stereotyped, let’s be clear on that. Let’s make a clear distinction between;
a) Who someone is?
b) Who that person perceives they are?
c) Who other people perceive they are (which is usually where stereotypes are)?
Sure a), b) and c) affect each other but they are not all one big thing, they are quite separate.

We are talking about perceptual frameworks which simplify people and put them into categories and place expectations upon them on the basis of race, religion, ethnicity, background etc etc

I think on education we are clearly arguing about the same thing.

By: Mwangi

Mwangi — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 21:34:24 +0000

@acolyte: Alright Acolyte, what do you propose we do then? You have refused to see that there is any benefit to this thing called stereotyping. What do you propose we do instead? And do you practice what you preach?
As for education, there you and I shall not see eye to eye either. I guess we shall let life and experience be our teacher. God willing we’ll still be around many years down the road, we will see whether this formal education thing is truly as important as people say it is, I say education is important but formalized education isn’t as important as people make it and you are of the position that formalized education is one of the most important determiners not only of the quality of one’s life but that the African obsession with it is healthy…so let’s work through this life together and see………..

By: acolyte

acolyte — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 21:31:47 +0000

Okay since you are willing to stereotype away, you do realise that India and China have vast amounts of poor people, more than the rich so it seems that those are not real Asians but imposters. You are a kikuyu but you are poor? You must be a luo in disguise or something. Africans are not one big monolith to whom you can attribute the same features but anyway
stereotype away my good lad.
Sadly the link that you gave me doesnt have biographies but one thing I will tell you is that what I do know about many of those billionares is that they apprenticed, worked hard and by doing that received an education. You also do realise that most of them are over 40 and lived in a time where one could make it with enough hard work and desire. But we live in a time where people work smart instead of working hard.
Let me ask you something, suppose you work at making the uber blog for 5 years and you don’t make it (knock on wood). What next? What do you have to fall on? At least if you have some sort of schooling you could join the workforce as you rebuild and you know how employers seem to love degrees and certification in this day and age.
Education is not only a good tool box it is also a good parachute. Even big time athletes who prosper after their brief careers say that an education be it a certificate/diploma/degree has often helped them prosper and not go bankrupt. A University education in your eyes may not be of much use but in the world there is still plenty of use for one and it does offer many positive benefits as evinced by the link to the report I gave you.

By: Mwangi

Mwangi — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 20:51:15 +0000

@acolyte: On stereotypes, I think you and I have reached a point of agree-to-disagee because simply put I think stereotypes can be exploited for good if one is willing to investigate how. So what would you propose you do Aco? And before you answe that question, I would ask do you do it? For example, if your proposition is that we should take every single person as an 100% unique individual whose culture, background, looks and race have no bearing upon his personality or character (not potential, there as always its infinite) do you do that? Do you look at everyone as you walk down the street and not assume that they have a proclivity to act a certain way on the basis of where they are from and how they look?
Whereas I do agree that education is a toolbox, every university and University course teaches a “school of thought” i.e. they may give you the tools but they also teach you how to use the tools to achieve a pre-set agenda which as far as I can tell is to work for captains of industry. And by the way thank you for reinforcing my point, education is indeed just a toolbox….just a toolbox, they didn’t teach us that growing up….it’s just a toolbox. And again, I make the distinction between education and University: education is a given, University and attending school is not.
Or do you actually have expectations, even subconsciously, that you may or may not accept that more often than not come true.
How many Asian millionaires can we say have been created by this self-fulfilling prophecy of Asian dilligence and intelligence. I can tell you, I live in basically a suburb that is a sub-section of the Orient and Indian sub-continent: guess which public school has some of the highest performers in the State and sent a spider to space……….not my comspolitan high school.
Look through this list and tell me it isn’t suspect how many of them dropped out or did Bachelor of Arts and Science while ending up captains of industry:
http://www.forbes.com/2008/03/05/richest-people-billionaires-billionaires08-cx_lk_0305billie_land.html