Australian Doesn’t Want Us Africans Any More

Hello,

Today I came across this article that looks like it was written by an Australian man and I just thought I would share it with y’all to look at and make your own conclusions on below that I have attached my comment that I left on his post:

Rudd Wants More African Immigration

My Comments

Mwangi said…
Oh Mr. Evans, Mr. Evans, Mr. Evans. You know what as a fellow human being to the other let me say hello and wish you well.The article whereas very well quoted and cited – at a level that sadly I believe my blog can never get to – the argument unfortunately began by not making a very key distinction:Refugees vs Immigrants
Whereas I love all my African brothers and sisters , there is no denying there is a huge disparity between African immigrants and African refugees for among other reasons the different classes of the groups and the trauma that refugees have to go through.Secondly, there are 50+ countries in Africa each with their own tribes, languages and immigrants and refugees that they have sent here.If we are to have honest, fair discourse, please change your article to reflect at the very least these two factors and also just what will happen to these Somali kids who have no home and no culture to return to once they are deported.A place is never judged by how it treats its best citizens but its weakest and most disenfranchised.
Mwangi said…
Apologies, I called you Mr. Evans. I am wiping the haze of sleep of my eyes now.

African

Africans and Victimhood
I found this article on Global Voices Online, find it in the Displaced African resources or by going to Global Voices Online . It’s about an idea that I will definitely expound on myself later on. However, she discussed it perfectly so check it out. Below I have pasted a conversation I am having on Global Voices Online about the article. Feel free to join in.

Barikiwa,

Mwangi

  1. Dr Elma Ross:

    1It would have been much better if no white man ever set foot in sub-saharan africa. of course, the africans by themselves would have, in the past 350 years, promoted themselves from stone-age living to silicon valley. they would have had their own alphabets, libraries, roads, sky-scrapers, and and would still have been the first to form operations like heart transplants. sorry the white man interfered!

    Mwangi – the Displaced African:

    2Dr. Ross, you completely misunderstand the victim mentality. In fact you are coming at it from an entirely different frame of reference.

    There is no doubt that there have been quite a few perks to living in the post colonial time -like infrastructure and all of that – but there’s also no doubt that that isn’t why the colonialists set foot in Africa. They came in to conquer, rape and plunder and they did.

    Lest we forget we already had our own empires – Ashanti kingdom for one-and cultures all rich with their own knowledge and wisdom.

    Hope I have enlightened you a little bit.

    Dr Elma Ross:

    3Ms Englightened, true they did have their own knowledge systems. It included – and still does – harvesting penisses and brains from victims live, as the screams of these unlucky ones would enhance the quality of the muti for which it is harvested. You cannot blame that the colonisers also took over these mutilations.

    why is it that the African nations run to “White” nations for help? Also, while blaming a certain country for shipping off the best people during the slave trade, some countries in Sub-Saharan Africa has policies in place that contribute towards the brain drain, i.e. drives the well-qualified away. I can see it coming: in due time, the nations to which they went to work / emigrated, would be blamed for “taking away human resources”.

    My grandparents were in concentration camps during the Anglo Boer War; Irish Catholics suffered under England … the list really, is endless. To be sure, most peoples were oppressed some time during history. Yet, they do not make a career out of being a victim.

    Mwangi – the Displaced African:

    4Have you actually ever spoken to Africans, as in really spoken, or are you basing these ideas on just some superficial perusal of Western news and literature?
    After WW2, Europe also went to other Western powers to bank roll their redevelopment just like Africa did. As you know, Europe got a bit of a fairer deal on that one, so I don’t think this whole victim thing is a one way street, also read this article which explains just how profitable the NGO industry is:
    http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2006/02/get-real-poverty
    To be fair, a lot of what you have said is true. But it’s not complete in that it doesn’t capture the whole gamut of personality types that run across Africa including the saints among women who managed to feed a whole constituency of previously starving people starting with only one goat and a bag of cashew nut seeds or the Bikos and Wangari Maathai’s who put themselves on the line with nothing but love in their hearts.

    But ultimately the biggest problem with your statements is that, they don’t offer a solution. Ultimately, your statements label us as victims and self destructive people and leaves us there. I think there may be a lot of things that Africans need but to continue to accept, wallow in and live a lives of self-destruction and victim hood aren’t one of them.

    This response has been a little meandering, hope it makes sense

    Dr Elma Ross:

    5I lived in Sub-Saharan Africa for more than forty years. In various countries. I visited victims of muti murders in hospitals, and went to morturies as a researcher.

    I have also witnessed schools being burnt down, when they were better than in many many other 3rd world countries.

    I know the struggles of the white people to get anything going in Sub-Saharan Africa. Considering that there was no architecture.

Barikiwa,

Mwangi

31 Comments

  • By Dr Elma Ross, March 10, 2008 @ 3:00 pm

    It is indeed significant that someone here refers to the motto that a country is known by the way it treats its weakest. A country is also known by the way it drives its highly qualified people AWAY.

  • By Mwangi, March 10, 2008 @ 3:12 pm

    Welcome Dr. Ross, I think ours is the begining of a tumultuous yet oddly beautiful relationship.

  • By Dr Elma Ross, March 12, 2008 @ 2:57 am

    Thank you. Invitation accepted.

  • By majonzi, March 12, 2008 @ 8:08 am

    Just read “Abandoned Skip”. wow! I am afraid that there are many people who do not clearly see the need/importance of diversity.

    I went over the pdf on mistakes overseas students make– pretty good. I think for many reasons, many foreign students stick together because of a common identity. Interestingly, it is easier to interact with the majority group if there is not too many of your kind!

  • By Mwangi, March 12, 2008 @ 11:27 pm

    Someone very close to me once said that if you want to increase the productivity of Africans in a foreign nation then make sure they live far away from each other. That way they are forced to figure out just how to live in a world surrounded by people who look like them. I agree wholeheartedly that the reason that we stick together is common identity; it took me a long time living here to figure out that there are people you simply cannot connect with. I think the challenge is finding that balance between hanging around your own kind so that your core identity is constantly strengthened and making strides in foreign countries by networking with foreigners. Very hard balance, very hard balance!

  • By Dr Elma Ross, March 13, 2008 @ 12:50 am

    Making sure “they” live far from each other suggests that “they” need influence from some non-Africans. Which, in tusrn, implies that such Non-Africans are more productive.
    Second, diversity would not be healthy if it brings with it issues that could be a treat on many levels. Therefore, it is hard to imagine any European country regarding muti mutilations and murders as acceptable social practice, as is the case in many African societies.

  • By Mwangi, March 13, 2008 @ 2:23 am

    OK! Let’s say that you’re right! What now, doctor?

  • By Dr Elma Ross, March 13, 2008 @ 8:46 pm

    Come clean. Be truthful. Next time, when an African delegation begs white countries / organisations / foundations for something, be sure to mention that, should those same people who are expected to extend their help, give up their white-country citizenship, move to Sub-Saharan Africa, and share their knowledge to the best of their abilities, they stand a good chance of being defamed (at best) or viciously murdered) at worst. The same people from whom Africans go an beg.
    Second, give the whole truth: Africa was no picnic before colonialisation. While Leopold and those watching Biko die are codemned (an rightly so), hundreds of innocent people were murdered in socially accepted rituals – in really barbarric ways. In other words, how were the white colonists supposed to think that Africans appreciate life and dignity?
    Third, set up an iniciative to ensure all White people in Africa citizenship in a white country. Then, show the world how Africa develops without any help

  • By Mwangi, March 13, 2008 @ 8:57 pm

    Most of the points I don’t think merit any response however I will answer the last point: Check out what Botswana and Namibia have done with their economies. I think when governments have enough money to send their children abroad and pay for the education and living expenses, for them to be sent back and work on national development, they have done something right.

  • By Dr Elma Ross, March 14, 2008 @ 5:53 am

    Why abroad? Is that not implying that European education is better? Why, then, murder white people in Africa if they bring their European expertise to Africa? Why drive white people who have the expertise, and who are prepared to live in Africa, away?
    It is typical: murdering white people who have chosen to make African countries their home “{does} not merit a response”. Yet, begging from white people/ organisations / counries / foundations in foreign countries is acceptable.
    I repeat: it would be honest to tell people in white countries the whole truth. This means: do not hammer on the wrongs of white communities, while covering up atrocious actions of Africans / the living conditions before colonialisation.

  • By Mwangi, March 14, 2008 @ 7:09 am

    My dear doctor I think you will find that no one is as capable of finding the faults of African people before, during and after colonialism as the African person. In fact one of our biggest problems is our inability to celebrate and cherish when we do something right because we get so caught up in where we go wrong.
    As for the murder of white people in Africa, what about the rate at which we murder each other? The problems you speak of also apply within our community including driving the best away. So in other words, you are absolutely right but I don’t see you giving any solutions.
    I don’t think we as Africans need to focus too much on presenting our negatives to white communities, the western media has pretty much branded our home the dark continent and done a pretty good job of doing that, read the interview with Sunny for more on that

  • By Dr Elma Ross, March 15, 2008 @ 3:04 pm

    Stic to the issue of victimhood as suffering at the hands of colonialists – as if life in Africa was really better before the time. Also, tell your hosts in the Netherlands (or any other European country) that, should they resign their citizenship and go to Africa, they stand a good chance of being killed by Africans – especially if they would go live on a farm.
    Be honest. During this past week an Afrikaans family was tortured with a hot clothes’ iron; another Afriaans woman was torutred in the same way, stabbed in the back and chest, raped, and then left to die. What does the western media have to make of that?

  • By Dr Elma Ross, March 16, 2008 @ 1:08 pm

    Seeing that you have not answered my most recent note: your theme starts with Africans being victims of colonialism, i.e. the settlement of white people. My questions still are:
    1. why do Africans seek help in white countries, without telling those who would help these help-seeker vicims that, should the helping move permanently to an African country, they stand a good chance of being murdered or, at least, defamed – even though they might bring relief to stone-age living conditions?
    2. Can you read Dutch? I suggest you read BEELD Koerant (newspaper). What do you say about African victims using hot clothes’ irons to torture their white counterparts?

  • By Dr Elma Ross, March 17, 2008 @ 5:17 am

    Losing the battle of words? Be a good sportsperson and at least shake hands e-wise with the winner.

  • By Mwangi, March 17, 2008 @ 5:23 am

    You win. Thanks for stopping by.

  • By Dr Elma Ross, March 21, 2008 @ 11:02 pm

    You Welcome – next time, try people with little first-hand knowledge of Africa; they may fall for your side of the story, hook, like and sinker.

  • By KP, April 14, 2008 @ 12:31 pm

    I am extremely late to this discussion, unfortunately, but I must say that I am extremely disappointed in Dr. (?) Ross’ line of thinking, which amounts to little more than “Europe-good, Africa-bad” (and here I thought that Americans were the egocentric ones!). Moreover, “Doctor” Ross, you did not “win” anything, for Mwangi was trying to engage you in an open, honest discussion but unfortunately you were unable to remove your head from your buttocks long enough to put your racist ideologies aside and engage him back. So on the contrary, my dear, YOU LOSE.

    Mwangi, I commend you for your efforts. Your love of Africa and her people leaps right off of the page! Despite what the Dr. Ross’ of the world would like you to believe, it is inevitable that Africa will one day become a major player in the global economy.

    I’m sure you understand that everyone needs a scapegoat to pin their frustrations. (In my country, for example, it seems to be those from Spanish speaking countries at the moment — Mexico, the Dominican Republic, etc.) Shamefu, yes, but human nature nonetheless. Dr. Ross, I suppose, is only acting as best she can.

  • By Mwangi, April 14, 2008 @ 12:40 pm

    Thank you KP, I really appreciate that. I agree with you entirely about scapegoats, it’s amazing the lengths we as human beings will go to sometimes to avoid taking responsibility and taking action.
    Thanks for defending me! :) I am looking forward to reading your opinion on my other posts and reading your blog should you have one. The whole Dr. thing does seem a bit suspect doesn’t it?

  • By Dr Elma Ross, April 19, 2008 @ 1:57 am

    Dear KP.

    You obviously also believe in Mugabe…
    You obviously do not live on the Southern African continent. Then you will see the following:
    1. Muti murders: BlACK PEOPLE harvesting penissis and other body organs live from victims, in order to scare evil (!) spiritis away;
    2. The full scale torture and murder of white people, by Black people. Burning people with hot clothes’ irons is quite acceptable;
    3. Torturing ANIMALS (just see “Africa crisis” website to pics of cows unable to move because their tendons have been sliced by these kind people;
    4. Farms that have been given them, being broken down – remember, the first settlers also had nothing.

    You, KP, have to answer to every person who has been stabbed and tortured by Africans just for the sake of it. Maybe a few stab wounds in you stomach by a Black person would bring you to your senses.

    Thank you for having so much empathy with the people who planted fruit trees where there were none; built homes where there were no real homes; designed roads and other forms of infrastracture to people still in the stone age by their own making (before colononialism they were free to develop).

    Just, let the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation know this: if they were to go live on a farm in South Africa, posing as ordinary people, they might likely be murdered.

    Lastly, how do you explain how these governments drive (yes: drive!) highly educated people away? As an example: in South Africa, an accredited provider (for ourses that have now sunk the education system) earn in the range of R1500,00 per learner per day of tuition, from the skills levry. A teacher with a higher qualification earns R8000,00 per month – for doing far, far, far more work. Indeed, on one of the accredited courses, a candidate was sent an exam question four months after the exam – with no supervision as to who would actually answer it. A solution would be to register all the providers according to qualifications, and remunerate them accordingly – but, of course, then, the favourites would not get rich from it.

    Then, we do not have 24/7 electricity anymore – by mismanagement. This means that an asthma patient might not be able to use his nebuliser.

    Nice of you talking like this.

  • By Dr Elma Ross, April 19, 2008 @ 2:16 am

    I see you intelligent people are doubting my title, “Dr”. If you were not so stupid (remove your heads from your behinds!), you can search google, the archives (since 2005) of the following newspapers (BEELD, PRETORIA NEWS; STAR; DIE BURGER; CAPE ARGUS; HUISGENOOT …” , the library records of UNISA (University of South Africa).

    I published in more that 40 publications – the list, really, is too long to write up here. Just shows you when two ignorant people like you start speculating …

  • By Dr Elma Ross, April 19, 2008 @ 12:14 pm

    Dear Magwani
    we printed out these pages and circulated them amongst psychology students (postgraduate). Some of the comments are:
    1. Mangwani identifies with people who feel sorry for her;
    2. Mangwani will support the views of anyone supporting her in her self-pity program, even if such a person woul (i) try to discredit and anacemic), and (2) introduce some disgraceful statements;
    3. Mangwani allegedly hangs on to the sponsorship of a White country ( – is this correct?), but keeps quiet about decendants from that same country being tortured to death in Africa.
    You are proving a number of my theories. Go ahead.

  • By Dr Elma Ross, April 19, 2008 @ 9:49 pm

    Swallowed your tongue? (Keyboards?) Seems like you can only hold your own with less educated people who move the discussion to below the belt for the first time in this discourse, and choose to speculate about the integrity of institutions that grant the learned higher degrees (you were, essentially, also doubting the integrity of my promotors, the university, and the external promotor). You should be judging yourself and the psychological space you take up being a victim – which, means, in essence, blaming others.

  • By KP, April 22, 2008 @ 2:02 am

    “Swallowed your tongue? (Keyboards?)”
    Hardly. Unfortunately, I must tear myself way from my computer every now and then as I do have what we like to call a social life, clearly a foreign concept for you. Regarding your submissions, I will respond A) when I have the time and B) if your comment warrants a reponse.

    That being said, you allege that I can only hold my own when talking with the less educated; I suppose I’m in the right place talking with you then, no? Moreover, if the pompous tone of your conversations with Mwangi is at all indicative of the substance of your articles, then no thank you. I prefer NOT to receive my information from those who view the world through a biased lens.

    I stand by my earlier comments, despite the opinions of you and your alleged “post-doctoral psych student” focus group. Feel free to discredit me all you want, my dear. However, that will not change my opinion of you or the subject matter. Is this the example you set for your students? Go for the jugular when the opinions of another do not match your own (I am referring to your earlier conversations with Mwangi here) then become even more incensed when someone calls you out on your bad behvior? And you wonder why I question your title??

    I’m going to close with this quote from this doctor I know: “Maybe a few stab wounds in you stomach by a Black person would bring you to your senses.” Wow, Elma. Classic.

  • By KP, April 22, 2008 @ 2:55 am

    Maybe a few stab wounds in you stomach by a Black person would bring you to your senses.”

    Sorry to dwell on this little soundbite but this further proves that you cannot possible be who you say you are. I certainly wouldn’t want such an inflammatory and obviously bigoted comment attributed to me if I were in your alleged position. But clearly you are the authority on all things African so that being said:

    “Yes, good Doctor! You are right! Africa bad! Very, very bad! Let’s kill them all and stab them in THEIR stomachs! Yes! That’s the solution! And then we’ll establish White rule and all will be as God intended!!”

    There. Another “Down with Africa” convert; you’ve succeeded in your mission. Happy now?

  • By Dr Elma Ross, April 22, 2008 @ 12:41 pm

    I can type fast, so i can type and have a life.
    I was personally, viscously attacked. thank you for your kind thoughts. Thank you for spitting your verbal venom on the people who are tortured – often to death. The torturous murder for white farmers haver reached the highset proportions in the world. It must be just up your street to see a small child pleading to a robber not to hurt his mommy – and then see her being raped. The websites of AfricanCrisis.co.za and AfricanCrisis.org and Stoptheboergenocide must be where you get your living room pictures from – this is the reality of many people arond here.

  • By Dr Elma Ross, April 22, 2008 @ 12:57 pm

    To KP – given that you see yourself and your opinions as superior to those like myself speaking out about the evil attacks on people in South Africa – and siding with someone who found refuge in a white (!) country, under the auspices of white people (as I understand from previous entries).
    Maybe you should come live here, preferzbly on a white farm. The torture levels are really high. then you will have experience – not just head knowledge of a tiny aspect of the real reality.

  • By Dr Elma Ross, April 22, 2008 @ 1:02 pm

    To KP
    the venom that you spat out at my talking openly about the human suffering is asstounding – considering that you are criticising me. Do you really think it is in keeping with the quest for securing human rights to turn a blind eye to the boer genocide, elderly people having their fingers cut off, muti murders and muti mutilations …

  • By Dr Elma Ross, October 20, 2008 @ 4:39 pm

    The IMF has just cancelled a deal with CHAD for the corruption. wonder why …?

  • By Dr Elma Ross, October 20, 2008 @ 4:40 pm

    The IFM has just cancelled a deal with CHAD for the corruption. wonder why …?

  • By Georgy Podgy, July 17, 2010 @ 4:48 pm

    What a pity I just stumbled on this blog and the comments two years later. Point of correction Dr. Elma Ross on your comment “…and siding with someone who found refuge in a white (!) country, ” Indigenous Australians are the original inhabitants of the Australian continent and nearby islands and the descendants of these peoples. Indigenous Australians are distinguished as either Aboriginal people who first came about 56000-68000 years ago, probably by land bridges from Southeast Asia, New Guinea to Australia or Torres Strait Islanders, the indigenous people of the Torres Strait Islands, part of Queensland, Australia. They are culturally and genetically linked to the Melanesian peoples of Papua New Guinea.

    And just like the red Red Indian are the indigenous peoples of the Americas are the pre-Columbian inhabitants of North, Central, and South America.

    Australia’s first group of “white” European migrants arrived in January 1788. They came on a fleet warships, packed with almost 800 convicts. Governor Arthur Phillip was in command. When the fleet reached the planned destination of Botany Bay, Governor Phillip was disappointed to find that it was not suitable for settlement. So the fleet continued a few kilometers up the coast to an inlet named Port Jackson. Here Phillip found what he described as ‘the finest harbour in the world’. On its shore, at a place he named Sydney Cove, Phillip established the first European settlement in Australia.

    The main reason for a British settlement in Australia was to provide a place of punishment where convicts could be sent. Phillip’s task was to establish such a settlement and make it self-supporting as soon as possible, so that the British government would not have to pay large amounts of money to keep it going. This was an enormously difficult job for several reasons:

    The people who were to build the settlement were convicts. Generally they were not good workers and very few of them had any knowledge of farming or carpentry – the two skills most needed in the new colony.

    Unlike Aborigines, who lived well off the land, the new settlers did not understand the Australian environment. Nor, in the early years, did they have much success in finding fertile land or growing enough food to feed the whole settlement.

    The new convict settlement at Sydney Cove was very isolated. The nearest European settlements were in the Dutch East Indies and at the Cape of Good Hope.

    It would take up to 18 months to get news to Britain and back.

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